[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

This is not true either.

The best player available is the player that the team feels will end up having the greatest impact at the NHL level. They factor in ceiling, floor, how soon they will be NHL ready and all of that. Which is why there is no list, because each team weights the factors differently.

I would agree with this completely.

[Red Menace]

It's very possible to be a fan of Jankowski, pulling for Jankowski, believe he has a good shot to be an NHLer, etc, and still believe it was a poor decision to draft him.
To me it seemed obvious from day 1 that his upside was to become as good as some of the other available players already were (like Teuvo). I don't think anyone outside of Weisbrod and co. Ever thought he had a higher ceiling than TT (or some of the others available).
So it seemed extremely strange to take such a chance on him when consensus top 10 talent was available.
The fact that we haven't seen him play yet, or he is still developing, etc is exactly the problem....we have seen TT and others play, and they are clearly top 6 players.
In fact, I would take the results entirely out of it....you judge this based on what you knew at the time in 2012, and it was a poor decision, I think the hockey world outside the Flames bubble all agreed with this.
I am not a flames hater by any stretch; I think they've made a number of other excellent picks and decisions...but this was clearly not one of them.
I fel bad that it gets pinned on Jankowski ( who I , and all true Flames fans are pulling for), but it is inevitable that the comparisons will continue to be made.
It's summer time and there's not much else to discuss, and the great play of TT in the finals is only highlighting how we missed out on this pick.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

Both are related, if people don't like it don't read it.

With all due respect this thread has been here a lot longer then you have, the topic of the thread was established in the first post. Maybe if you don't like it, too bad?

[Alberta_Beef]

Reading back in this thread I am glad I have been pretty open minded from the beginning.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I'm here to hear more about the kid as a prospect, and continue to find you and two or three others droning on and on with your tired agenda. It's as boring as it is sad. Now you've resorted to just whining about nothing. Why are you even here?

MOD EDIT: that's enough. Take it to PM guys

[badger89]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Nobody could have predicted that in the two following drafts that the Flames would have the top center arguably in each fall directly into our lap. Calgary did not draft a decent top 6 center since Nieuwendyk, so who would have figured that all of a sudden not only would that change, but we would get two players that are looking like they will be perennial all stars.

Jankowski was looked at being a potential top 6 center at the time because we didn't have any in the system. Now there really isn't as much pressure to be "the guy" because we have two players that can easily be "the guy" instead. That allows him some wiggle room to find his niche. It may be possible that he pushes Bennett over to the wing on the second line because of his superior faceoff abilities. It might be that he becomes a good 3rd line shut down center like Jordan Staal was to the Penguins.

We won't know till after next year.

Well said. This is the crux of the debate... With hindsight, we might have taken a player in a different position, but at the time centre was our biggest need. We had to take the chance due to need. And weren't in a rush, so were willing to take the chance on a project. I'm happy with the pick as you can never have too many centres (you can always move some to the wing). Given our situation at the time, it was the right move.

[timbit]

IMHO , 40/60 he is ever a regular player in the NHL.

He has better than average skill but not sure it will be enough to compensate for how soft he plays.

Hope I am wrong.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except you're not posting why you think it was a bad pick at the time, you're posting why you think it was a bad pick three years after the fact, and using the early returns of unestablished players to substantiate your claims. So far the only reasons you have posted that Jankowski was a bad pick is because he wasn't a player that was on some silly list published by THN or TSN that made you believe there was a universal BPA. I've yet to see you clearly state the reasons why one of the other players was a better fit than Jankowski. Do you want to try?

I personally think Jankowski was a great pick because he was something that was sorely lacking in the Flames system. He was a big center, with a big skill set, who had potential to be a home run. He filled the biggest hole in the organization at a position the Flames had been looking to fill for almost two decades. He was a long term project, but that was okay as the Flames did not look to have the depth to turn the team around quickly. The belief was the Flames were four or five years away from doing anything, and Jankowski fit that time frame. This was at a time when we didn't have Monahan or Bennett in the pipeline, and management didn't believe we were headed to the bottom of the pile to pick early. Now, if they all pan out, they have three guys that could provide center depth that every other team in the league would kill to have. Horrible situation to be in.

Seriously? I honestly wonder if some of you even read or just like to scan and complain. I just said I didn't like the pick at the time because it was risky and we needed NHL players. He was out of high school which I think is a risky evaluation in itself and he was a long project. When you desperstely need prospects I didnt like this decision. You seem stuck on this idea that I'm using other players to try and prove Jankowski isn't any good. I haven't crapped on Jankowski once. Is there a more controversial Flames pick in recent memory? Not that I can think of. It's going to get some discussion. I know no one here is naive enough to think that discussion around the pick wouldn't go on in a thread about the player we picked.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by timbit

IMHO , 40/60 he is ever a regular player in the NHL.

He has better than average skill but not sure it will be enough to compensate for how soft he plays.

Hope I am wrong.

Yeah, pretty much but what could be in his favour is that as he gains strength he also gains the confidence to use it.

[theoforever]

Teuvo teravainen , what was he in his draft year 5'10" or 5'11" and 165 lbs shrimp, one dimentional, now apparently a 'star'. Trying to score that franchise center by going with Janko made sense, going with TT didn't, not at 14th or 15th or 16th or 17th apparently. It will be interesting where they end up. Now that we have Monahan, and Bennett there would be no space for another small lefty.

[kehatch]

I don't think it's fair to use hindsight to say we should have picked player X or player Y. Especially when these kids are still developing.

But I do think it's fair to ask why the Flames felt they had the luxury to gamble their first round pick on a high school kid that was (at best) a 4 year project. Given the state of our prospect pool and the team at the time that is.

It doesn't matter. He is in the system and the guys involved are gone. But it is fair discussion fodder. And last time I checked that is what the boards are here for.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I don't think it's fair to use hindsight to say we should have picked player X or player Y. Especially when these kids are still developing.

It's not hindsight to point out that Jankowski was regarded as a reach at the time he was drafted. And yes, players are still developing. But there's nothing wrong with making assessments of players three years out. It's not unfair to Lindholm to say that Monahan is looking like the better pick at this point.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by kehatch

It doesn't matter. He is in the system and the guys involved are gone. But it is fair discussion fodder. And last time I checked that is what the boards are here for.

You're not new here, so you must be oblivious to it. This particular discussion you're referring to has been gone over ad nauseam.

From the time of the pick, until now in every thread about the guy and all throughout the prospect forum.

It's already been said this thread is supposed to be for updates and discussion about the actual player, yet the same few individuals feel the need to thump their chests with their tired, overstated vendetta about the decision / pick despite this.

If you want to discuss that topic, there are several other places where it's been beaten to death.

The fact this thread keeps resorting back to a discussion that's been had 100 times before (and really has no bearing on this prospect himself at present) is sad and frustrating.

[Go_Flames4ever]

To the people that's been dissecting the pick and the whole trading down when we could've had Teuvo, Girgensons, Ceci, Wilson etc. Is Sieloff being considered as well? Wouldn't it be Janko + Sieloff =/= those guys?

So if Janko becomes a Girgensons as a ceiling and Sieloff becomes a #6D, wouldn't we win that trade-off? Or even if Janko doesn't become as good as Girgensons and that difference is made up by Sieloff wouldn't that end up being an even trade? I'd like to qualify that there's a chance that Sieloff may not pan out to be an NHLer, but he was looking very good prior to injury.

At the time of the draft I think almost everyone can agree that our Centre and D prospect depths were very underwhelming with only Nemisz/Reinhart/Granlund and Wotherspoon as the only ones that looked like they may make the show. So with that move we were able to address 2 areas of need going forward with Janko having a top-2 C potential and Sieloff possibly hitting middle-pairing potential. I don't think that looks very bad at all.

I understand people may have written Sieloff off, but I think that injury really hampered his development and he was looking very promising after being drafted (Team USA WJHC).

[T@T]

This thread is amazing, many people blame Feaster for bad picks but praise Button for the good ones.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by T@T

This thread is amazing, many people blame Feaster for bad picks but praise Button for the good ones.

That's exactly what they are doing, anything to win the argument, truth means nothing. Jay Feaster has to be destroyed at all costs, too bad they weren't around to beat the drum when the Riser and other Button were truly destroying this team.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by T@T

This thread is amazing, many people blame Feaster for bad picks but praise Button for the good ones.

Well since Feaster admittedly hadn't been trained to assess players, he left the draft up to Button and later to Weisbrod. Weisbrod said he made the final call on drafting Jankowski so it's pretty obvious who to blame or praise.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Maybe the mods could split this thread into two threads: one could be about Mark Jankowski the prospect, and the other could be something like "let's debate the Flames' 2012 first round draft strategy".

Or they could merge this with the Jankowksi thread in the Backburner, which has been rolling along like this consistently for 3 years. At least people would then have to make the effort to go to the Backburner, rather than see this thread is consistently bumped and feel the need to post the same opinion over and over and over (myself included).

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

You're not new here, so you must be oblivious to it. This particular discussion you're referring to has been gone over ad nauseam.

From the time of the pick, until now in every thread about the guy and all throughout the prospect forum.

It's already been said this thread is supposed to be for updates and discussion about the actual player, yet the same few individuals feel the need to thump their chests with their tired, overstated vendetta about the decision / pick despite this.

If you want to discuss that topic, there are several other places where it's been beaten to death.

The fact this thread keeps resorting back to a discussion that's been had 100 times before (and really has no bearing on this prospect himself at present) is sad and frustrating.

It's still a discussion. And discussing the pick is much more relevant then the ad nauseam posts telling people to stop discussing the pick.

Jankowski has the ability to shut the discussion down. Unfortunately he has failed to do that thus far. I am not suggesting he is a bust, but he hasn't shown the level of progress (especially offensively) that you would hope. Which fuels the fire and makes questioning the pick even more relevant.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Jankowski has the ability to shut the discussion down. Unfortunately he has failed to do that thus far. I am not suggesting he is a bust, but he hasn't shown the level of progress (especially offensively) that you would hope. Which fuels the fire and makes questioning the pick even more relevant.

I just find this discussion ironic when this was the team that drafted Eric Nystrom at #10 and held him as the top prospect for many years. Nystrom never had the skill or promise of Jankowski but we still held out hope that he would be a player. We waited patiently for Nystrom to develop and make the jump, but we can't wait on Jankowski? And we passed on a lot better talent for Nystrom than we did for Jankowski.

I think the whole argument is a little goofy. It really is people jumping on a pick because guys drafted around or after him played in the NHL before him. I don't know about you but when I look at the 2012 draft I'd want Pulock over Zadorov or Mueller, and Mantha over Lazar and Rychel. Making it to the NHL first doesn't mean you're going to be the better player. Also doesn't mean you're going to have a long career. Nystrom didn't make it to the NHL until 2007-2008, and by that time Jakub Klepis' NHL career had come and gone and Denis Grebeshkov's career was in its twilight. We really need to wait another couple years to see how this plays out, because the players that have made the jump already have not yet established themselves as anything in the NHL.