[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Highest potential and BPA are not the same thing.

High Ceiling (#1 Center with size, hockey sense and skill / Nieuwendyk/Spezza etc) + Medium Floor (3rd line NHL checking centre with great hands / Bigger Stajan etc) = BPA

Medium Ceiling (Small scoring 2nd line winger) + Low Floor (Career AHLer due to being undersized) =/= BPA

Medium Ceiling (#3D with limited skill/questionable skating) + Low Floor (career AHLer due to questionable skill/limited skating) =/= BPA

Most NHL Ready =/= BPA
Most likely to project as an NHLer = BPA

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

And again it's back to this. You keep repeating that this was a foolish pick, and to what end? We know your position. Can you suggest someone else from the Flames' organization who should be fired for this "foolish" decision besides Feaster and Weisbrod? If there isn't anyone, then who the hell cares about a three year old decision by a fired management team? And all the flowery praise you keep showering upon the picks we should have made, that is really getting old and boring and pointless and it shouldn't be in this thread. But you'll keep on reminding us on just how much you hate this pick. Just admit it. You hate this player and you want him to fail, so that you may self gloss that you were right all along.

If someone posts the reasons why they thought Jankowski was a good pick at the time I can post why I think it was a bad pick at the time. I'm not the one starting this discussion just replying to it. Is it that hard for you to just leave the thread if you don't like the discussion? I guess I'll take the time to write a paragraph whining about another poster instead.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If someone posts the reasons why they thought Jankowski was a good pick at the time I can post why I think it was a bad pick at the time. I'm not the one starting this discussion just replying to it. Is it that hard for you to just leave the thread if you don't like the discussion? I guess I'll take the time to write a paragraph whining about another poster instead.

Except you've said the same thing over and over and over. It's not an opinion with you any longer, it's an agenda. You're unable to let it go, and it's not so much that it's annoying as that it's just outright bizarre to be so invested in this.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Please use this thread to discuss the prospect only

If you want to discuss the merits of trading down for this player please use this thread:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=118410

Just quoting the OP. Jankowksi's draft was 3 years ago and this thread has turned into Groundhog Day. I think most people would rather discuss the player himself & his merits rather than the prospects that got away on draft day. Otherwise it's just pathetic and depressing troll food.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

High Ceiling (#1 Center with size, hockey sense and skill / Nieuwendyk/Spezza etc) + Medium Floor (3rd line NHL checking centre with great hands / Bigger Stajan etc) = BPA

Medium Ceiling (Small scoring 2nd line winger) + Low Floor (Career AHLer due to being undersized) =/= BPA

Medium Ceiling (#3D with limited skill/questionable skating) + Low Floor (career AHLer due to questionable skill/limited skating) =/= BPA

Most NHL Ready =/= BPA
Most likely to project as an NHLer = BPA

Jankowski isn't a lock to be an everyday NHL'er now so he definitely wasn't 3 years ago.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Jankowski isn't a lock to be an everyday NHL'er now

I'll take Flames development guy Ron Sutter's words:

Originally Posted by sureloss in February

Flames development team are happy with his progress. Think center is his natural position and Ron Sutter says that he is learning the details of the game.

The details and the day to day things are going to make him a successful NHL player more than his natural abilities which he already has.

over yours.

so he definitely wasn't 3 years ago.

Then why would an NHL team draft him in the first round? Oh right, you're smarter than professional scouts.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If someone posts the reasons why they thought Jankowski was a good pick at the time I can post why I think it was a bad pick at the time. I'm not the one starting this discussion just replying to it. Is it that hard for you to just leave the thread if you don't like the discussion? I guess I'll take the time to write a paragraph whining about another poster instead.

It may very well have been a bad pick then and now. But Janko isn't a pick anymore, he's a prospect. You don't seem capable of separating the draft pick from the player, and you hang out in this thread continually reinforcing your disdain for one of our prospects, while praising other team's players and waxing how much better Teivo Maata is. How would that not be annoying?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Except you've said the same thing over and over and over. It's not an opinion with you any longer, it's an agenda. You're unable to let it go, and it's not so much that it's annoying as that it's just outright bizarre to be so invested in this.

It's more bizarre to me that if you have such an issue with it that you would keep entering the thread and continue following the discussion.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Hackey

It's more bizarre to me that if you have such an issue with it that you would keep entering the thread and continue following the discussion.

Pot?

Kettle's been calling, texting, voicemall, snapchatting, and PMing you on CP.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'll take Flames development guy Ron Sutter's words:



over yours.



Then why would an NHL team draft him in the first round? Oh right, you're smarter than professional scouts.

You just said 2 players had AHL floors so why would an NHL team draft them? Your so irrational man. Take the emotion out of it for a second and maybe you'd realize a 17 year old kid out of High School who was picked at 21 is hardly a lock to make the NHL. Most players bust but they still get drafted.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Pot?

Kettle's been calling, texting, voicemall, snapchatting, and PMing you on CP.

Except I'm part of the discussion not complaining about the discussion. Not quite how you use that one.

[Steve Bozek]

Maybe the mods could split this thread into two threads: one could be about Mark Jankowski the prospect, and the other could be something like "let's debate the Flames' 2012 first round draft strategy".

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Most likely to project as an NHLer = BPA

This is not true either.

The best player available is the player that the team feels will end up having the greatest impact at the NHL level. They factor in ceiling, floor, how soon they will be NHL ready and all of that. Which is why there is no list, because each team weights the factors differently.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

It may very well have been a bad pick then and now. But Janko isn't a pick anymore, he's a prospect. You don't seem capable of separating the draft pick from the player, and you hang out in this thread continually reinforcing your disdain for one of our prospects, while praising other team's players and waxing how much better Teivo Maata is. How would that not be annoying?

Except this isn't true. I have seperated the player and the pick. That's why I haven't said anything negative about Jankowski. And what players am I praising? Little over dramatic. I said there was no reason to try and diminsh Teuvo's playoffs. I haven't once spoken about how good he is or isn't. I may have once said I wish we would have selected Maata instead of Jankowski at 21 but I guesss to you that is waxing over how much better he is. It's probably more annoying have people put words in your mouth but I'm okay with it.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Hackey

It's more bizarre to me that if you have such an issue with it that you would keep entering the thread and continue following the discussion.

I'm here to hear more about the kid as a prospect, and continue to find you and two or three others droning on and on with your tired agenda. It's as boring as it is sad. Now you've resorted to just whining about nothing. Why are you even here?

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Maybe the mods could split this thread into two threads: one could be about Mark Jankowski the prospect, and the other could be something like "let's debate the Flames' 2012 first round draft strategy".

Both are related, if people don't like it don't read it.

[theoforever]

There is no reason Jankowski cannot become a good 3rd line center, and if he discovers a scoring touch perhaps more. He is still very young, similarity to Joe C, kind of jumps out. Hopefully, he doesn't get scared off by the blind hatred displayed by some and pull a schultzy. All teams would be lining up to pick him up.

[firebird]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Except this isn't true. I have seperated the player and the pick. That's why I haven't said anything negative about Jankowski. And what players am I praising? Little over dramatic. I said there was no reason to try and diminsh Teuvo's playoffs. I haven't once spoken about how good he is or isn't. I may have once said I wish we would have selected Maata instead of Jankowski at 21 but I guesss to you that is waxing over how much better he is. It's probably more annoying have people put words in your mouth but I'm okay with it.

But this thread is about the player, NOT the pick, please take your discussion about the PICK to another thread so that people wishing to discuss the PLAYER don't have to wade through pages of argueing over the pick.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If someone posts the reasons why they thought Jankowski was a good pick at the time I can post why I think it was a bad pick at the time.

Except you're not posting why you think it was a bad pick at the time, you're posting why you think it was a bad pick three years after the fact, and using the early returns of unestablished players to substantiate your claims. So far the only reasons you have posted that Jankowski was a bad pick is because he wasn't a player that was on some silly list published by THN or TSN that made you believe there was a universal BPA. I've yet to see you clearly state the reasons why one of the other players was a better fit than Jankowski. Do you want to try?

I personally think Jankowski was a great pick because he was something that was sorely lacking in the Flames system. He was a big center, with a big skill set, who had potential to be a home run. He filled the biggest hole in the organization at a position the Flames had been looking to fill for almost two decades. He was a long term project, but that was okay as the Flames did not look to have the depth to turn the team around quickly. The belief was the Flames were four or five years away from doing anything, and Jankowski fit that time frame. This was at a time when we didn't have Monahan or Bennett in the pipeline, and management didn't believe we were headed to the bottom of the pile to pick early. Now, if they all pan out, they have three guys that could provide center depth that every other team in the league would kill to have. Horrible situation to be in.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Hackey

You just said 2 players had AHL floors so why would an NHL team draft them.

From one team's perspective that's what the floor looks like, which is why x player is not in their perspective the BPA. From the team taking the player's perspective the floor can be completely different, or maybe every player on the board has the same floor in their eyes.

One thing that's clear though, is that both NHL teams' perspectives on the player they feel is BPA are worth much more than that of people like us who only have access to TSN and THN draft profiles. That includes Chicago's perspective on TT, Calgary's perspective on Jankowski, and Pitt's perspective on Maatta.

Every post you've made about Jankowski has your opinion on a player you haven't had the exposure to that the Flames have had. That's an undeniable fact. You probably did not watch the player play before being drafted. Neither did I, BTW; Since I'm not a member of an NHL organization.

That especially becomes problematic when you talk about his playing in HS as a blatant knock on his projection, as if the Flames scouts were just "oblivious" to the quality of competition. Button even talks about how difficult it is to project players out of high school but they did it because they were confident in the experience of the scouts with the scenario. If high school scouting were so limited, we would not have a dedicated high school amateur scout.

It's just bizarre to me that if you have such an issue with Jankowski being out of HS, even though he just won an NCAA championship, 1st Team All-Tournament, that you would keep entering the thread and continue recycling the three-year-old "discussion" about how he was a player out of HS and TT/Maata were the obvious BPA.