[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[getbak]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I would take Maata though, based on organizational need.

That's the problem with hindsight. If things had played out differently the last two seasons and instead of Monahan & Bennett, the Flames ended up with Jones & Ekblad or even Nurse & Fleury, everyone would still be lamenting the lack of top-calibre centres on the depth chart.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by getbak

That's the problem with hindsight. If things had played out differently the last two seasons and instead of Monahan & Bennett, the Flames ended up with Jones & Ekblad or even Nurse & Fleury, everyone would still be lamenting the lack of top-calibre centres on the depth chart.

This might be true but in this scenario I think we would all be bitching that we didn't take Girgensons or Hertl not Jankowski. Pretty sure under no scenario would we be wishing we selected Jankowski if we hadn't.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's things like this that make me shake my head when all this recent Feaster love popped up during this season. If that man had been able to actually execute his vision, this team would be such a disaster right now that it wouldn't even be funny. We're are so fortunate that he couldn't implement the things he wanted to.

Feaster's tenure is hard to assess because it seems like, to a higher degree than most GMs, he has a large number of big home runs and huge whiffs.
Made some great moves and then some poor and nearly disastrous ones.

[nik-]

Does he have a large number of big home runs though? He had some moves that turned out to be solid for sure, but I have a hard time identifying a large number of home runs.

He has one huge home-run draft pick, and a couple more that look to be solid. Wideman signing was trending towards a failure until this year, and we'll see what the next two give. Kris Russell I'll give "home run" status to as well. The Erixon trade was also great work while pinned against the wall.

[JiriHrdina]

Solid moves would include
- Joe Colborne for a 4th
- Kris Russel for a 5th
- Signing Dennis Wideman (this one is arguable)
- Signing Jiri Hudler
- The Bourque to Montreal deal
- The handling of the Tom Erixon situation and subsequent trade

Solid draft selections
- Sean Monahan
- Emile Poirier
- Jon Gillies
- Markus Granlund
- Tyler Wotherspoon
- John Gaudreau

Now at this point someone will come in and say "yeah but Monahan was the guy left - anyone could have drafted him". Well I guess, but you can't blame him for the bad stuff without crediting him for the good stuff regardless of how it went down.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Hackey

TT was a major part of 2 massive goals last night. He was a major reason they won a game that many thought they were going to lose. In a 7 game series and starting on the road that is a HUGE win for the Hawks. TT was a big part of that. If it was all he did for the rest of the series it would still be a big contribution. He has 8pts in 13 games though. He has been quite effective for them. In comparison Bennett had 4pts in 11 games and we were all going nuts. If TT was wearing a Flames jersey I hardly doubt you would be calling him "invisible", "can barely carry his jock strap", "contributions grosely overblown". We'd all be saying wow I think we might have a player here.

Totally agree, TT looks really promising and the Flames should have taken him. Now what? Who can we fire for making that bad decision?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

the way Featser and Weisbroad sold the pick to the media and the fans was they were smarter than everyone by picking a kid out of Canadian high school with their first round pick. Classic Feaster speak followed saying that other teams were ready to draft him in the first round

What does that have to do with the player? Maybe Feaster and Weisbrod and Button were smarter than "everyone else" - it's what you have strive to be in that line of business.

Originally Posted by Hackey

The agreeing part was directed at you. The downplaying was directed at posters who are trying to discredit TT. Guess it wasn't totally clear lol.

No one's trying to "discredit" TT. He was clearly a solid pick for the Chicago Blackhawks. But he wasn't a home run no-brainer and still isn't in retrospect. The only player being discredited is Mark Jankowski, in his own thread.

This might be true but in this scenario I think we would all be bitching that we didn't take Girgensons or Hertl not Jankowski. Pretty sure under no scenario would we be wishing we selected Jankowski if we hadn't.

Something is wrong with a fanbase if we're bitching about missing out on a bunch of career 3rd liners. Not exactly Getzlaf and Perry.

[GioforPM]

I knew it!! This whole Jankowski topic is a surrogate for the old Feaster fans and haters to get back into battle.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Now at this point someone will come in and say "yeah but Monahan was the guy left - anyone could have drafted him". Well I guess, but you can't blame him for the bad stuff without crediting him for the good stuff regardless of how it went down.

I think it's pretty fair to minimize the Monahan choice in his plus column not only from the perspective that he was the obvious pick, but from the perspective that in Feaster's plans we wouldn't even have had that pick.

Your list is fair though, I think we just have a different definition on what a home run is. Semantics.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Solid draft selections
- Tyler Wotherspoon

But we could have had Kucherov instead, who was picked right after.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Totally agree, TT looks really promising and the Flames should have taken him. Now what? Who can we fire for making that bad decision?

Man you need to follow the conversation. I was clearly responding to someone who was trying to downplay TT. "invisible", "can barely carry his jock strap", "contributions grosely overblown." were all things said. It's not me trying to say look at him now we should have drafted him but rather let's just be fair in our analysis. You don't even have to acknowledge his contributions but don't try to downplay it either. We loved what Bennett did and we would have loved what TT is doing even more.

[monkeyman]

This thread leaves me longing for the Baertschi thread. He had 3 goals in one game you know. the same game. A playoff game! Crazy right?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

No one's trying to "discredit" TT. He was clearly a solid pick for the Chicago Blackhawks. But he wasn't a home run no-brainer and still isn't in retrospect. The only player being discredited is Mark Jankowski, in his own thread.

You thanked New Era's post so I'm assuming you read it. As did others.

Originally Posted by New Era

See, there is the biggest problem in this thread. Teravainen is NOT starring in the finals. He has been almost invisible the entire playoffs, while playing with damn good talent. He scores a seeing eye shot from a bad shooting lane, and gets a phantom assist on the give away, and all of a sudden he's a star player responsible for carrying the Hawks to the finals. That last statement is not hyperbole either. When someone has the balls to say that player X is the star of the team that means they are the guy carrying the club on his back. Teravainen has barely been able to carry his own jock since coming to North America, but now he's a star. His contribution has been grossly overblown. He was expected to be a scorer and he isn't doing any of that. Not at the AHL level, and not at the NHL level. A long range shot the goaltender has yet to see, thanks to the hard work in the dirty areas by his line mates, doesn't impress.

Like honestly you must be a terrible loser if that's your response to a 20 year old kid was has 8pts in 13 games and just had 2pts in game 1 of the Stanely Cup finals.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Man you need to follow the conversation. I was clearly responding to someone who was trying to downplay TT. "invisible", "can barely carry his jock strap", "contributions grosely overblown." were all things said. It's not me trying to say look at him now we should have drafted him but rather let's just be fair in our analysis. You don't even have to acknowledge his contributions but don't try to downplay it either.

NO one is downplaying his contributions when we say "the goal he scored last night was created by Duncan Kieth and Bishop didn't even see the Puck". That is obvious from watching the play.

No one is downplaying his contributions when we say "the assist he scored last night was a play created by Patrick Sharp and an absolute snipe by Antoine Vermette".

That doesn't mean he's not a good player. He made a good shot and a good pass. Something plenty of 5'10 skilled players probably, but not necessarily would have done in his place. He didn't create incredible plays with his speed or skill.

He did have a game against the Ducks were he was creating plays with his skill - halfway into that same game the Ducks adjusted and forced big time turnovers on him.

He didn't play better than Toews or Kane simply by being on the scoresheet, nor were his contributions to that scoresheet as valuable as Kieth, Vermette, or Sharp.

That isn't downplaying him. That's fair analysis.

What the "we shoulda drafted TT crowd" is doing is overhyping him with "Look! 2 point night in the Finals! He's a star!"

We loved what Bennett did and we would have loved what TT is doing even more.

Ridiculous.

This is what we loved about Bennett:



Where's the comparable play from Teravainen?

[Hackey]

Justify it however you need too. Me and millions of other hockey fans will be happy for the kid who is having a great playoffs. You and a few sore losers can nitpick him to death if it makes you feel better.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Justify it however you need too. Me and millions of other hockey fans will be happy for the kid who is having a great playoffs. You and a few sore losers can nitpick him to death if it makes you feel better.

Posts like this and calling people sore losers will surely help elevate this discussion.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

But we could have had Kucherov instead, who was picked right after.

Or we could have had Rasmus Bengtsson, Mario Lucia, or Shane Prince who were the guys drafted after that.

[GranteedEV]

Justify it however you need to.

Justify what? That you can plop Sven Baertschi into those exact same plays and probably get the exact same results? Um, I will. Until this decent third liner TT has done something other than be a decent third liner.

Me and millions of other hockey fans will be happy for the kid who is having a great playoffs.

Go. Be happy for him. In a thread that isn't the Mark Jankowski thread.

You and a few sore losers can nitpick him to death if it makes you feel better.

The irony. Oh the irony. You point out what's actually happening in the sequences in which Teravainen is picking up his points and it's "nitpicking".

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Hackey

You thanked New Era's post so I'm assuming you read it. As did others.



Like honestly you must be a terrible loser if that's your response to a 20 year old kid was has 8pts in 13 games and just had 2pts in game 1 of the Stanely Cup finals.

Get bent. Teravainen was largely invisible for last night's game, which was a horrible game until the third period, in my opinion. Teravainen scored a very lucky goal that normally wouldn't beat a NHL goaltender, except for the screen provided by his line mate. He also got an assist on a give away when the defense man fumbled the puck. If you followed the box score, it was a brilliant performance. If you watched the game, he was a perimeter player for all of the game and not in the play for the majority of his shifts. His line mates carry the play, not Teravainen.

The chest pumping over Teravainen's performance is no different than the crap that used to pop up when Baertschi would have a couple points. He still played like crap as a whole, but wow, he got a couple of points. what a player!

[Hackey]

Honestly if Canucks fans broke down Bennett in the same way I'm pretty sure the majority of people here would be laughing, calling them haters, saying they wished they had a player like Bennett. I highly doubt people would be saying ya they are right that's how the plays broke down. Very fair analysis. Just a bit hypocritical in my eyes. But hey if you disagree that's your right.