[News] Leafs hire Babcock (8yr contract, $50 million)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I get that it's impossible to pin down a specific team. I'm saying pick any team you like and what you think the return would be from that club. Say....Carolina or Edmonton or someone that could really use defense.

I believe that, at best, the leafs get back a 2nd and maybe a b level prospect and have to retain some salary on top of everything. I could be way off base. ...admittedly.

I suppose the Leafs might sucker Edmonton into trading the first they got from Pittsburgh. But then it's Chiarelli now, not MacT.

What a crappy trade that'd be for the Oilers. Phaneuf is the opposite of what they need on D. Imagine him "mentoring" Nurse.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

You said 5th. Who says I was talking about those two?

The Wideman comment is what was really ridiculous.

Ridiculous how?

Wideman - 15g 41a 56p +6
Russell - 4g 30a 34 p +17 (plus first or second in the league in blocked shots!)

Phaneuf - 3g 26a 29p -11

Phaneuf would be on Calgarys bottom pairing.

And if your worried about easier minutes or any other silliness your going to grasp at to prove your point, the Wideman/Russell pairing got big minutes and tough assignments. Especially in the playoffs when we used 4 D primarily.

Nothing ridiculous about my statement at all. What is ridiculous is your assessment of Phaneuf. But as I said. I'm pretty sure your just trolling now.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

It's hard to guess what team will take him. But I do think he'll return a first or a nice prospect,.

Keep in mind, most think he's garbage and the Leafs will eat 3-4 million per and get almost nothing in return.

These types of 4/5 guys make $3M in the UFA market (ie. Engelland) and that's an overpayment. So if the Leafs will eat $4M or $5M of his contract, they will get whatever the current trade market dictates for a 4/5 d-man. Which could be a nice prospect, depending on what the market is at the time, but certainly won't be close to a 1st rounder and more likely a B-level guy. It doesn't help that teams will know the Leafs have really no bargaining power-they can't rebuild properly with Phaneuf still there. Even if you strip his C it will remain a distraction.

You're going to be disappointed. They might even keep him and try to re-shape him into the new team culture, I suppose if anyone can do it it's Babcock.

Man the leafs are going to be so bad the next few years.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

He is Toronto's best D.

No he isn't, Morgan Rielly is much better.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No he isn't, Morgan Rielly is much better.

Not yet. He will be.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by heep223

So if the Leafs will eat $4M or $5M of his contract, they will get whatever the current trade market dictates for a 4/5 d-man.

Worse yet, they can't retain that much. The most they can eat is 50% of the cap hit. At best, the team that acquires Phaneuf will be paying $21 million over six years for a beat-up defenceman whose best days are far behind him. And the Leafs will be paying him $21 million not to play for them… which might be the better half of the deal by the time Phaneuf is 35.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by heep223

These types of 4/5 guys make $3M in the UFA market (ie. Engelland) and that's an overpayment. So if the Leafs will eat $4M or $5M of his contract, they will get whatever the current trade market dictates for a 4/5 d-man. Which could be a nice prospect, depending on what the market is at the time, but certainly won't be close to a 1st rounder and more likely a B-level guy. It doesn't help that teams will know the Leafs have really no bargaining power-they can't rebuild properly with Phaneuf still there. Even if you strip his C it will remain a distraction.

You're going to be disappointed. They might even keep him and try to re-shape him into the new team culture, I suppose if anyone can do it it's Babcock.

Man the leafs are going to be so bad the next few years.

Oh my god, this can't be serious can it? Phaneuf makes 7 million, so you're saying if they eat 4/5M so that the receiving team only has to deal with 3 or 2 million salary, then they will get whatever a typical #4/bottom pairing dman will get? How can people possibly believe this. He is a solid middle pairing dman and a 'meh' #2, but still able to play those minutes if required. If the leafs could get him down to 2 or 3 million salary they would get a ransom for him.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

Oh my god, this can't be serious can it? Phaneuf makes 7 million, so you're saying if they eat 4/5M so that the receiving team only has to deal with 3 or 2 million salary, then they will get whatever a typical #4/bottom pairing dman will get? How can people possibly believe this. He is a solid middle pairing dman and a 'meh' #2, but still able to play those minutes if required. If the leafs could get him down to 2 or 3 million salary they would get a ransom for him.

Clearly I believe it. Agree to disagree. He's more of a liability than anything these days.

[codynw]

The most salary that can be retained is 50% anyways. In Phaneuf's case, $3.5M.

And no, Toronto won't do that. That's a long time to have a $3.5M cap hit for someone to play for another team.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by heep223

These types of 4/5 guys make $3M in the UFA market (ie. Engelland) and that's an overpayment. So if the Leafs will eat $4M or $5M of his contract, they will get whatever the current trade market dictates for a 4/5 d-man. Which could be a nice prospect, depending on what the market is at the time, but certainly won't be close to a 1st rounder and more likely a B-level guy. It doesn't help that teams will know the Leafs have really no bargaining power-they can't rebuild properly with Phaneuf still there. Even if you strip his C it will remain a distraction.

You're going to be disappointed. They might even keep him and try to re-shape him into the new team culture, I suppose if anyone can do it it's Babcock.

Man the leafs are going to be so bad the next few years.

Jeff Petry-5.5 million per.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Jeff Petry-5.5 million per.

Yep, exactly. He's better than Phaneuf and making $2M less. And that's being overpaid as a UFA.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by heep223

Yep, exactly. He's better than Phaneuf and making $2M less. And that's being overpaid as a UFA.

No he's clearly not better. That's a terrible deal. FRanson will get the same, maybe even 6 million per.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Petry is a solid top 4 dman. What is Phaneuf? That's right, a solid top 4 dman. I might give Phaneuf a slight edge in overall quality but that is negated by being paid more, being older and having a longer term. All those things considered Petry > Phaneuf. If Phaneuf was getting 500k less than Petry, I'd take him for sure. Like it or not, contract status matters more than the overall quality of the player in the cap era.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

No he's clearly not better. That's a terrible deal. FRanson will get the same, maybe even 6 million per.

Yeah and I'm sure whatever team signs that deal will not only regret it immensely in the years to come, they also won't be winning anything paying a guy like Franson that much.

[savemedrzaius]

Leafs got a first for Franson and Santorelli. I'm sure they could get a first for Phaneuf.

I'm hoping they hold on to him a little longer anyways. Both him and Kessel finished horrible seasons. Right now their stock couldn't be any lower. I'd like to see if Phaneuf's game changes at all under a new coach.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Leafs got a first for Franson and Santorelli. I'm sure they could get a first for Phaneuf.

You know cheap, expiring UFAs are easier to trade than guys with boat anchor contracts right? You can actually get several teams interested in trading for guys that can be managed into a salary structure of a team for a few months. It's a little different when it's an average top 4 guy locked in for 7 years @ $7m per. Probably the worst contract in the league right now outside of Richards and maybe Semin.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

You know cheap, expiring UFAs are easier to trade than guys with boat anchor contracts right? You can actually get several teams interested in trading for guys that can be managed into a salary structure of a team for a few months. It's a little different when it's an average top 4 guy locked in for 7 years @ $7m per. Probably the worst contract in the league right now outside of Richards and maybe Semin.

I guess since the Leafs traded Clarkson he's no longer overpaid.

Nonis said 5 teams called at the deadline. More will in the Summer.

You guys can call him crap, blah, blah, blah. He's a big time minutes muncher who has very good stats against the league's top players.

Oh yeah, and remember I said Letang wasn't a true #1? Pittsburgh is apparently looking to move him.

Nothing wrong with Dion for 7 million when guys like Orpik get 5.5 million+. Franson will get 5.5-6 million this summer.

[Poe969]

LOL, leaf fans always bring up how they traded Clarkson...and fail to mention that they got back arguably an even worse contract. Having Horton's contract isn't good but it works because he's injured and doesn't count against the cap. The BJ's were stuck in a bad position and were forced to take a bad contract just to have a warm body instead of paying for nothing.

It's not often a trade like that comes along so bringing it up is like bringing up the goal that Toskala let in against the islanders from the other end of the ice. It happened but it probably won't happen again for along time and only happened as an exception to the rule.

Leaf fans also like avoiding real questions and would rather bring up random little tidbits of information.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I guess since the Leafs traded Clarkson he's no longer overpaid.

I omitted Clarkson by mistake, you got me... it is an even worse contract. Nitpick the spirit of the post how ever much you want, I guess I should've said Phaneuf has one of the 5 worst contracts in hockey. That sounds so much better, I'm sure he'll net a better return because Clarkson exists.

Maybe the Leafs can get another Nathan Horton in return? I hear Laddy Smid and Ben Hanowski are available.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Poe969

LOL, leaf fans always bring up how they traded Clarkson...and fail to mention that they got back arguably an even worse contract. Having Horton's contract isn't good but it works because he's injured and doesn't count against the cap. The BJ's were stuck in a bad position and were forced to take a bad contract just to have a warm body instead of paying for nothing.

It's not often a trade like that comes along so bringing it up is like bringing up the goal that Toskala let in against the islanders from the other end of the ice. It happened but it probably won't happen again for along time and only happened as an exception to the rule.

Leaf fans also like avoiding real questions and would rather bring up random little tidbits of information.

The Clarkson comment was a very small part iof what I said. read the rest. There was no avoiding anything.

The Jackets have themselves to blame. You're 30th in NHL revenue and you sign a guy WITHOUT getting insurance? That's far stupider than Nonis signing Clarkson.

BTW my Clarkson comment is how I now find it interesting Clarkson's contract is no longer mentioned nearly as much. We know why.