[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

False.

After the draft Feaster basically put it all on Weisbrod. As if Feaster knew it was a bad pick and didn't want to take any heat for it. Weisbrod saw him live 2 times and insisted the Flames draft him.

This is inaccurate as well. Weisbrod and Feaster were looking to move the pick and we're listening to offers at the deadline. It was the Flames scouting staff that made them change their minds. I do believe it was Fred Parker who first saw Jankowski, while he was playing at Stanstead, and he made the hard sale to Button who in turn made the sale to Weisbrod. Once they all got eyes on the kid they decided the pick was no longer in play. just as there are every pick.

[bax]

Originally Posted by flambers

If you are talking recently then the reference is towards Jay Feaster.

He managed 5 drafts I think (Sam Reinhart - 3rd rounder, Baerschi, Jankowski, Monahan and Bennett)

So far, 2 of the 4 are really good selections.

Jankowski is an unknown.

Who knows how Baerschi will perform.

I think you mean Max Reinhart? And he was a Sutter pick

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

That sounds like the worst asset management imaginable.

Dump a proven AHL player who is 1-2 years older than Jankowski so that Jankowski can fill the exact same role? And then receive no 2nd round pick?

Bottom line is the Flames don't need any more 3rd line tweeners.

If Jankowski can show more than bottom 6 upside next season, by all means the Flames should sign him. If the Friars become a bottom feeder team without Gillies and their graduated seniors, then suddenly that 2nd round pick seems tempting.

What? What does overall team failure have to do with one player not being signed? It's straight up jibberish.

So what if Providence regresses next season. Jankowski could put together a Jack Eichel type of season and still have zero effect on the teams standings if the rest of the team craps the bed.

This thread has gone full circle again. from good conversation to jibberish. Time to let it die until next year.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

That sounds like the worst asset management imaginable.

Dump a proven AHL player who is 1-2 years older than Jankowski so that Jankowski can fill the exact same role? And then receive no 2nd round pick?

Yeah, what's wrong with that? If you/the Flames think Reinhart has maxed out as a proven AHL veteren you dump him for a younger guy coming out of College who you think has NHL potential. That isn't just for Jankowski, that's for everyone. There is only so many spots for developing players, you make room for them.

The 2nd round pick is interesting but I would be shocked if it plays a part. Flames seem to like Jankowski and they've put a lot of time into his development. Unless he has a disastrous season next year, he'll get signed.

[GranteedEV]

Basically

1) Weisbrod fibbed about Sieloff being right after Jankowski on the "Flames board". Feaster and Weisbrod were known for bending the truth to the media.

2) Weisbrod was already in Quebec to see Culkin and Grigorenko and ended up watching Jankowski, but the way Button words it is "He would have seen him eventually" and "all of our scouts saw him". The implication here is that the kid was scouted a lot more aggressively than just "our new assistant GM saw him once and decided to override the entire Amateur scouting department"

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

It's hard to say at this point. Seiloff is now a long-shot to become an NHLer, but who knows how much farther along he'd be without that missed year. At the time of the pick, it seemed he may be a decent bottom 4 defensemen and good replacement for Cory Sarich.

If Seiloff was still a relevant piece from the 2012 draft, this thread would have a completely different tone.

Why is he a long shot? The guy lost a complete year of development because of a health issue. I don't get why people are writing him off.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by dammage79

What? What does overall team failure have to do with one player not being signed? It's straight up jibberish.

So what if Providence regresses next season. Jankowski could put together a Jack Eichel type of season and still have zero effect on the teams standings if the rest of the team craps the bed.

This thread has gone full circle again. from good conversation to jibberish. Time to let it die until next year.

There's a difference between regression and being a bottom-feeder team. I fully expect providence to regress, but if Jankowski was truly a big part of this seasons success like some of you are quick to mention, than he should be able to take over top line duties and keep providence out of the basement next season. He's got a highly touted defensive game, but how much of that was due to Gillies .950 save percentage?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Azure

Why is he a long shot? The guy lost a complete year of development because of a health issue. I don't get why people are writing him off.

Because he was also very underwhelming this season. Bouma was injured a full year and he came out guns blazing the following season.

Seloff is now behind Morrison, Wotherspoon, Culkin, Kulak, Hickey, Cundari on the depth chart. He ended the season playing as a 4th line forward.

That sounds like a long shot to me bud.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

There's a difference between regression and being a bottom-feeder team. I fully expect providence to regress, but if Jankowski was truly a big part of this seasons success like some of you are quick to mention, than he should be able to take over top line duties and keep providence out of the basement next season. He's got a highly touted defensive game, but how much of that was due to Gillies .950 save percentage?

You didn't follow Sean Monahan in his draft year, did you?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

False.

After the draft Feaster basically put it all on Weisbrod. As if Feaster knew it was a bad pick and didn't want to take any heat for it. Weisbrod saw him live 2 times and insisted the Flames draft him.

Well that was just Feaster doing his thing, saying too much. This was definately a Tod Button pick, just like every pick is a Tod Button pick.

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

If you're worried about contract spots, there are other players that the Flames can most likely get rid of or part ways with. For example, if Max Reinhart continues to just be an AHL player because we have no room for him on the Flames, he'll either be traded or not re-signed.

Not every player pans out at 22/23 years of age, Backlund is a great example of that.

Well its not just Max Reinhart vs Mark Jankowski, it would be Reinhart + 2nd vs Jankowski

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Yeah, what's wrong with that? If you/the Flames think Reinhart has maxed out as a proven AHL veteren you dump him for a younger guy coming out of College who you think has NHL potential. That isn't just for Jankowski, that's for everyone. There is only so many spots for developing players, you make room for them.

The 2nd round pick is interesting but I would be shocked if it plays a part. Flames seem to like Jankowski and they've put a lot of time into his development. Unless he has a disastrous season next year, he'll get signed.

Read my previous post please.

It's an issue in the case that Jankowski looks to be nothing more than a 3rd line tweener. Why swap a 22 tweener for a 24 tweener when you can get a valuable 2nd round pick instead? If we already have more bottom 6 talent than we have room for and Jankowski hasn't shown anything more then that by the end of next year, whats the point?

And can you elaborate on how the Flames have put a lot of time into his development?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You didn't follow Sean Monahan in his draft year, did you?

No I didn't, but I know their situations are far different.

Jankowski was 5th on his team in scoring this year. Monahan was on a bad 67's team and put up a ton of points in relation to the rest of his team.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

There's a difference between regression and being a bottom-feeder team. I fully expect providence to regress, but if Jankowski was truly a big part of this seasons success like some of you are quick to mention, than he should be able to take over top line duties and keep providence out of the basement next season.

I don't think there's a doubt they'll be a good team, but they're probably not getting into the NCAA tournament is all.

He's got a highly touted defensive game, but how much of that was due to Gillies .950 save percentage?

I wouldn't say a whole lot. Two things that really impress me about his defensive game are

1) His ability to knock the puck away from his check just by being in the right place at the right time. He just has a great stick and awareness.

2) His ability to pounce on and clear away rebounds in front of the net. His knack for it is exceptional.

I don't think Gillies' save percentage to do with those things. And honestly, I know we're all high on Gillies' but his save percentage of 0.930 which honestly in College play is not really amazing even if it was great.

Connor Hellybuyk (Jets prospect, same draft year as Gillies) 2013-14 0.941 which dropped down to a .920 in his first AHL season
Ryan Massa - 0.939 (undrafted 6'0 goaltender who nearly beat the Friars on his own in the NCAA Frozen Four)
Zane McIntyre (Bruins prospect) - 0.929
Rasmus Tirronen (undrafted Finnish guy, signed an ATO with Carolina's farm team) 0.929
Matt O'Connor - .927 (undrafted top College UFA)

Basically, Gillies put up the stats you'd expect from an NHL hopeful, but he wasn't head and shoulders above other top goaltenders. He did NOT post a .950 that's for sure.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

There's a difference between regression and being a bottom-feeder team. I fully expect providence to regress, but if Jankowski was truly a big part of this seasons success like some of you are quick to mention, than he should be able to take over top line duties and keep providence out of the basement next season.

Really?

Tell that to the #1 Centre of the Ottawa 67's in 2012/13. Bottom feeder team lead by a guy who just scored 60 point in the NHL in his sophomore season.

That's a horrible assertion on your part.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Jankowski was 5th on his team in scoring this year. Monahan was on a bad 67's team and put up a ton of points in relation to the rest of his team.

What does that have to do with anything? You just said Jankowski should be able to stop his team from being a bottom feeder next season, when a far superior player / point producer couldn't do that with his last place team. Again, terrible logic.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

It's an issue in the case that Jankowski looks to be nothing more than a 3rd line tweener. Why swap a 22 tweener for a 24 tweener when you can get a valuable 2nd round pick instead? If we already have more bottom 6 talent than we have room for and Jankowski hasn't shown anything more then that by the end of next year, whats the point?

Max Reinhart isn't a 24 year old tweener, he's going to be a 24 year old AHL player. If Jankowski develops into a third line tweener that's obviously better.

Don't know if we have more bottom 6 talent then we have room for.

The point? To develop Jankowski and see what we have. We could draft another Grandlund, Wotherspoon or Hunter Smith in the 2nd round too I guess, but Jankowski is just as good as any of those prospects in the 2nd round, and we couldn't have to wait another 3-4 years.

And can you elaborate on how the Flames have put a lot of time into his development?

Simple fact he's been in the system for three years, that's all.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Basically

1) Weisbrod fibbed about Sieloff being right after Jankowski on the "Flames board". Feaster and Weisbrod were known for bending the truth to the media.

2) Weisbrod was already in Quebec to see Culkin and Grigorenko and ended up watching Jankowski, but the way Button words it is "He would have seen him eventually" and "all of our scouts saw him". The implication here is that the kid was scouted a lot more aggressively than just "our new assistant GM saw him once and decided to override the entire Amateur scouting department"

We can bounce sources back all day long with how the media words everything.

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/...of-first-round

Off the charts? Yes. But colour the team sold. Particularly John Weisbrod, the assistant general manager.

“Weis thinks this guy, if he’s not the most talented guy coming out of this draft, he’s going to be one of them,” said Feaster. “High expectations. This is a player that we had targeted.”

“I can tell you I was in a bad mood — I was driving two and a half hours through snow,” said Weisbrod. “But by the middle of the second period, I was laughing out loud by myself in my seat.

“He’s a long way away, he’s raw, he’s young, he’s still got to cross the crocodile-infested waters and develop properly — like, it’s a long way from draft day to play in the NHL — but the physical attributes this guy has. The athleticism. The skating. The hands. The fact that he’ll likely be playing at six-four, 215. I’ve said it to our scouts all week long — he’s Joe Nieuwendyk.”

So Weisbrod thinks he's Joe Nieuwendyk. It was definitely Button who told Weisbrod to see the kid play, but it was Weisbrod who over-hyped him as a 1st round pick.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

No I didn't, but I know their situations are far different.

Jankowski was 5th on his team in scoring this year. Monahan was on a bad 67's team and put up a ton of points in relation to the rest of his team.

But he couldn't keep his team out of the basement, which is what you blathered on about.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

It was definitely Button who told Weisbrod to see the kid play, but it was Weisbrod who over-hyped him as a 1st round pick.

Over-hyping =/= Making the final call.

There has been no indication that Weisbrod overrode Todd Button, our director of Amateur Scouting, in the 2012 draft. Being high on a prospect does not mean Feaster/Weisbrod just magically acted differently from the rest of their tenure.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Anyone who chalks up Jankowski's defensive game to Jon Gillies save percentage hasn't watched a lick of him playing over the past couple years, and certainly missed the Frozen Four tournament.

That's a really weird thing to say. Jon Gillies excellent saves didn't help Jankowski in the faceoff, along the boards, solid positioning and stick work.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Max Reinhart isn't a 24 year old tweener, he's going to be a 24 year old AHL player. If Jankowski develops into a third line tweener that's obviously better.

Don't know if we have more bottom 6 talent then we have room for.

The point? To develop Jankowski and see what we have. We could draft another Grandlund, Wotherspoon or Hunter Smith in the 2nd round too I guess, but Jankowski is just as good as any of those prospects in the 2nd round, and we couldn't have to wait another 3-4 years.


Simple fact he's been in the system for three years, that's all.

Okay so for a slight upgrade you would be willing to give up a 2nd round pick? I label that as bad asset management, but to each his own.

Players like Agostino and Hanowski showed more in their college career and had good AHL seasons, Agostino in particular. Add in Granlund, Shore, Smith, Hathaway, Jooris, Elson etc.. That's a lot of potential bottom 6 guys to list and that's without me looking at the roster list.

Eric Roy has been in the system for 3 years, but I'm not going to say the flames spent a lot of time developing him. They have spent a lot of time developing Reinhart though as he's bounced between the AHL/NHL for 3 seasons now.