[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[Da_Chief]

Seriously is it so damn hard to understand this concept? He is still a prospect who potentially can be better then all of the guys drafted ahead and behind him or he can be a total bust but we don't know yet.

He hasn't played damn NHL game yet cause he is still developing in the NCAA. There is no discussion as to if he's better or worse then guys around him.

Why can't the naysayers just wait till he makes it or busts in the NHL? It's not the picks around him have turned into superstars.

Girgensons - 30 points in 61 games last year, would Janko do much worse then him on that team?

Ceci - 21 points in 81 games last year, decent dman but no way in hell is he going to be challenging for Norris now or ever.

Wilson - 17 points in 67 games last year, 1 point in 13 playoff games. Big power forward? Sure but we have guys of his ilk and more coming. If he was producing those numbers as a 1st rounder in Calgary people would be calling for his head.

Hertl - After a big start he has 31 point season in 81 games while getting time with good linemates. Big whoop.

Teravainen - Points documented in this thread. Smallish winger, don't we have enough of those?

Vasilevskiy - Russian goalie, the consensus on this board has been to not draft a goalie in the first round let alone a Russian flight risk. Forgetting about all, we have G prospects in the system. For him to displace Bishop? it will take few years.

Laughton - Good AHL numbers, 6 points in 31 games last year. Will he better? probably but right now he wouldn't be providing us much either.

Matta - The guy has HUGE health issues right now. He would've been no help all last year and who knows he bounces back next year.

Are we seriously missing much? Would we be that much better had we taken these guys instead of Janko? Likely not.

Janko might be a star or he might be a bust but guess what Josh Jooris is already providing similar/better production to the Flames as these guys did for their teams.

We have a freebie waiting in Janko that we can wait for and see how pans out. All this BS about we could've had other guys is simply BS.

[Igster]

So one more year then. Seems like it's been a while. Much more so than any other prospect I can remember. Maybe that's why some fans are getting antsy about the pick?

[Huntingwhale]

Am I in the Backburner forum or something? Cause this is thread is exactly like that Jankowki thread in the other subforum: twisting and turning about who/where/when Jankowski should have been drafted.

[David Struch]

Mark Jankowski will to the Flames as Jordan Staal was to the Penguins in '09 (3rd line Centre)

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It pretty much consisted of Nemisz, Reinhart, Arnold, and Granlund in the system, with Backlund on the team.

The rather dire situation at centre provides a perfect context for the strength of the Jankowski selection at the time it was made.

This has been beat to death on the back burner already, but I feel the need to chip in as well..

If our centre situation was so dire, why did we take a project pick with our first rounder? There were plenty of guys who panned out as solid 2nd line centre's in the first round. Weisbrod thought he could outsmart everyone and get a first line centre with a late first round pick. It's that kind of arrogance that landed him the job in Vancouver.

Anyways, I'm not sold on any arguments backing up the selection at the time of the pick, or looking back 3 years later. There are quality players that we could of chosen who are professional hockey players right now.

What's done is done and all we can do now is hope for the best with Jankowski. His progression wasn't as steady as many would of liked, but anything can still happen with him. I also don't understand why so many Flames fans are rooting against him now just so they'll look smart if he doesn't pan out. Jankowski is still a Flames prospect and everyone should be rooting for him to make it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Which is why you always draft BPA. Jankowski was a project at the centre position (which was an organizational need at the time). Olli Maatta was the BPA at the time.

BPA isn't (or shouldn't be) the player who is best at the time, BPA is who you think will become the best player.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

This has been beat to death on the back burner already, but I feel the need to chip in as well..

If our centre situation was so dire, why did we take a project pick with our first rounder? There were plenty of guys who panned out as solid 2nd line centre's in the first round. Weisbrod thought he could outsmart everyone and get a first line centre with a late first round pick. It's that kind of arrogance that landed him the job in Vancouver.

Anyways, I'm not sold on any arguments backing up the selection at the time of the pick, or looking back 3 years later. There are quality players that we could of chosen who are professional hockey players right now.

What's done is done and all we can do now is hope for the best with Jankowski. His progression wasn't as steady as many would of liked, but anything can still happen with him. I also don't understand why so many Flames fans are rooting against him now just so they'll look smart if he doesn't pan out. Jankowski is still a Flames prospect and everyone should e rooting for him to make it.

This is such a silly argument: 'we couldn't afford the risk of a project'.

Drafting isn't about who will be the first player to make the NHL, it's about developing the best NHLers.

Risk isn't a 'time' thing, risk (IMO) refers to likelihood of busting. Strome is a risky pick. Russians are risky.

Jankowski wasn't risky because he actually has a very strong and complete set of tools. He is big (or will be when he fills out), he can skate, he has hands, he has a high hockey IQ, he is good at draws.

A guy like that isn't risky, as the chances of him making the NHL are actually pretty good.

What he was was a project, simply because getting him to NHL-ready was going to take time.

The draft - especially first round picks - isn't about filling holes in next year's lineup. It's about acquiring and developing players for the future.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

BPA isn't (or shouldn't be) the player who is best at the time, BPA is who you think will become the best player.


This is such a silly argument: 'we couldn't afford the risk of a project'.

Drafting isn't about who will be the first player to make the NHL, it's about developing the best NHLers.

Risk isn't a 'time' thing, risk (IMO) refers to likelihood of busting. Strome is a risky pick. Russians are risky.

Jankowski wasn't risky because he actually has a very strong and complete set of tools. He is big (or will be when he fills out), he can skate, he has hands, he has a high hockey IQ, he is good at draws.

A guy like that isn't risky, as the chances of him making the NHL are actually pretty good.

What he was was a project, simply because getting him to NHL-ready was going to take time.

The draft - especially first round picks - isn't about filling holes in next year's lineup. It's about acquiring and developing players for the future.

To add to this, teams that try to pick an 18 yr old to fill a hole in the next season are the ones that typically reach. Plugging holes in a roster from the draft for the up and coming season works in the NFL not the NHL.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is such a silly argument: 'we couldn't afford the risk of a project'.

Drafting isn't about who will be the first player to make the NHL, it's about developing the best NHLers.

Risk isn't a 'time' thing, risk (IMO) refers to likelihood of busting. Strome is a risky pick. Russians are risky.

Jankowski wasn't risky because he actually has a very strong and complete set of tools. He is big (or will be when he fills out), he can skate, he has hands, he has a high hockey IQ, he is good at draws.

A guy like that isn't risky, as the chances of him making the NHL are actually pretty good.

What he was was a project, simply because getting him to NHL-ready was going to take time.

The draft - especially first round picks - isn't about filling holes in next year's lineup. It's about acquiring and developing players for the future.

Silly argument? I think it's very relevant when you see the crap list of centre prospects at the time. We could of drafted a player who would instantly move behind Backlund on the depth chart. Instead we have Jankowski who isn't currently one of the teams top 10 prospects.

Team's already overloaded with B-C level prospects like Detroit and Chicago could make this pick. Calgary, not so much.

Agreed, Risk means likelihood of busting. Jankowski was drafted out of a High school program. HIGH SCHOOL!!! Drafting out of high school is 10 times out of 10 a risky pick. Did you ever see him play against actual competition prior to the draft?

You agree that he was a project pick. Sorry to say that a project pick is a risky pick. The more time you need to develop a player, the higher chance you have of something going wrong in the process. A lot needed to go right for Janko to hit his ceiling and still does.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Igster

So one more year then. Seems like it's been a while. Much more so than any other prospect I can remember. Maybe that's why some fans are getting antsy about the pick?

Any fans getting antsy never understood that from day 1 this was the likely timeline

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

This has been beat to death on the back burner already, but I feel the need to chip in as well..

If our centre situation was so dire, why did we take a project pick with our first rounder? There were plenty of guys who panned out as solid 2nd line centre's in the first round.

Really? Who exactly had established themselves as solid 2nd line centres?

[Igster]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Any fans getting antsy never understood that from day 1 this was the likely timeline

Yup, I would imagine so. I don't follow prospects too closely myself so I had no idea. Then again, I'm pretty sure I haven't posted I think he was a bad pick or the wrong pick. I don't know much about him other than the fact I was surprised he wasn't anywhere near the Flames yet.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Really? Who exactly had established themselves as solid 2nd line centres?

Forsberg, Grigorenko, Girgensons were drafted only a few spots ahead of the Flames original pick. If they had traded up a few spots instead of down, I think we'd all have been ecstatic with the result.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Forsberg, Grigorenko, Girgensons were drafted only a few spots ahead of the Flames original pick. If they had traded up a few spots instead of down, I think we'd all have been ecstatic with the result.

Ok we'll that's a completely different conversation and point from what you were making. 3 guys drafted earlier doesn't support your original point that there were plenty of guys who panned out as second line centres in the first. And Grigs doesn't even apply

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Ok we'll that's a completely different conversation and point from what you were making. 3 guys drafted earlier doesn't support your original point that there were plenty of guys who panned out as second line centres in the first. And Grigs doesn't even apply

You may want to re-read your post, because '3 guys drafted a few selections earlier' does support my point that safer centre picks with top-6 potential were drafted in the first round.. The Flames didn't want BPA, they wanted a centre. They traded the wrong way to achieve that and are now left with a defenseman turned 4th line forward and college player who is very much still a question mark.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Forsberg, Grigorenko, Girgensons were drafted only a few spots ahead of the Flames original pick. If they had traded up a few spots instead of down, I think we'd all have been ecstatic with the result.

Wasn't Girgensons picked with Calgary's pick? I would've loved the other two players but in no way was that feasible. We simply didn't have the surplus trade assets to move up in 2012. No 2nd rounder that year (not that it would be enough to trade up anyway) and a barren (but slowly improving) prospect base. At the time it probably would've cost our 1st+Sven to move up with a small + coming our way. Maybe Backlund would've got it done, but I doubt it. We were in no position to be trading up in any draft from early 2000s-2013 IMO.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

You may want to re-read your post, because '3 guys drafted a few selections earlier' does support my point that safer centre picks with top-6 potential were drafted in the first round.. The Flames didn't want BPA, they wanted a centre. They traded the wrong way to achieve that and are now left with a defenseman turned 4th line forward and college player who is very much still a question mark.

Again your are moving the goal posts from panned out as second line centres to potential. Very different

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Again your are moving the goal posts from panned out as second line centres to potential. Very different

I said safer picks with top-6 potential meaning they have a higher chance of reaching their ceiling..

And as was stated above, the Flames had 14th selection and could of drafted Girgensons with that pick, so my point stands. Buffalo has handled him terribly, but that shouldn't factor into this discussion.

Thanks for trying to nitpick my posts, but it's not working out for you.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I said safer picks with top-6 potential meaning they have a higher chance of reaching their ceiling..
.

You said this just so we are clear that I'm not mis quoting you:
, "why did we take a project pick with our first rounder? There were plenty of guys who panned out as solid 2nd line centre's in the first round."

Anyways I made my point

[Red Menace]

Has any NCAA prospect Forward with comparable points per game stats after 3 seasons ever made an impact in the NHL? (i.e became a top 6 forward)
It's an honest question....I am rooting for Jankowski, but his becoming an impact player for us seems pretty unlikely at this point.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

You said this just so we are clear that I'm not mis quoting you:
, "why did we take a project pick with our first rounder? There were plenty of guys who panned out as solid 2nd line centre's in the first round."

Anyways I made my point

First I'm talking about post-draft, followed by pre-draft in the later post, hence the different terminology.. But if you think you made your point, please feel free to move along.