[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Once again, you're getting overly fixated on the fact those picks have played NHL games. How many of the the "equal or better than" prospects you're referring to went the NCAA route? I'll answer it for you. ZERO.

I'm not trying to rag on Jankowski just stating that the whole hindsight argument doesn't quite work in this particular situation.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I'm not trying to rag on Jankowski just stating that the whole hindsight argument doesn't quite work in this particular situation.

It does when people start putting guys like Vaselevski (sp?) out there and saying the Flames should have picked him.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by heep223

All I know is if I was offered the choice right now, of Maatta or Ceci or Jankowski, I would take one of the former every single time. All the arguments aside.

The Flames also have a greater need for young, quality defence prospects at the moment over young centremen.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Absolutely true, however like I said earlier it is rare for college players to leave before their third or fourth years.

Players like Jack Eichel are the exception, not the norm (assuming he leaves BU this season).

sure... a lot sign after their junior seasons, but its true, not many before that...However, not many stay for their senior years either - at least guys signing with NHL teams.

http://www.uscho.com/early-departures-2015/

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

The Flames also have a greater need for young, quality defence prospects at the moment over young centremen.

In 2012 they didn't have Monahan and Bennet if I recall correctly.

[FlameZilla]

I guess this all brings up an interesting debate.

When drafting Best Player Available are you drafting:

A) The player who is closest to being NHL ready, i.e. 'best player at the time of drafting'

or

B) The player who, with some time in development, could become the best player to come out of the draft.

A) stinks of Oiler. B) is more of a classic Red Wing philosophy.

[Caged Great]

I always go with B, especially if you have enough talent at the NHL level to compete. It is a slightly different thing if you're in a situation like Buffalo where you have no NHL talent pretty much and very little in the prospect pool on top.

The Flames got lucky with both Monahan and Bennett that they were both ready right away and could play well. Now the team is needing more players that can develop for 3-4 years from now instead of tomorrow because of our current log jam of prospects. It'll get weeded out a bit over the next 18 months as players either get traded or graduate. That's why it didn't make much sense to have Janko sign right now because he would likely be playing on the 3rd line in Stockton like Agostino did this year. Just like with Rafikov, I would much prefer Jankowski getting prime minutes and opportunities somewhere than a reduced role in the A or ECHL next year. It'll help his development. After his college season wraps, he could probably use half a season in the AHL as well.

I am hoping that the Flames use their 6 picks to select some guys that are more like Hickey, where they can be patient for a couple seasons and let them develop more on their own before adding them to the AHL team. A couple European players and a couple NCAA bound guys would be perfect (not for our 1st round pick unless it's Kylington or Connor).

[Tinordi]

The Jankowski thread has been bumped and we aren't even out of May yet.

See you in September.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

This is the crux of what I disagree with. Saying they are better picks because they are in the NHL and Janko isn't just doesn't make sense - because he hasn't had the opportunity to be in the NHL.
So it isn't apples to apples in the least.

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Prospects don't always finish their NCAA career though - if they are good enough they can jump to the pros whenever they wish...

Exactly. The Flames signed Gillies and Gaudreau before they finished their college careers. If they thought he was ready to go pro, they'd sign him and have him play 80 games this year instead of 40.

If they really felt he was a blue chipper, they'd be going full court press to sign him and not risk him playing his 4th year and then waiting a few months to become a free agent.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

In 2012 they didn't have Monahan and Bennet if I recall correctly.

That's exactly my point. The person I was responding to said, "as of right now, I'd rather have Maata or Ceci over Jankowski".

I can understand why he's saying this right now, as we have a greater need for quality young d-men at the moment.

Back in 2012 when Jankowski was drafted, we had little if any quality centremen in the pipeline.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

That's exactly my point. The person I was responding to said, "as of right now, I'd rather have Maata or Ceci over Jankowski".

I can understand why he's saying this right now, as we have a greater need for quality young d-men at the moment.

Back in 2012 when Jankowski was drafted, we had little if any quality centremen in the pipeline.

It pretty much consisted of Nemisz, Reinhart, Arnold, and Granlund in the system, with Backlund on the team.

The rather dire situation at centre provides a perfect context for the strength of the Jankowski selection at the time it was made.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

That's exactly my point. The person I was responding to said, "as of right now, I'd rather have Maata or Ceci over Jankowski".

I can understand why he's saying this right now, as we have a greater need for quality young d-men at the moment.

Back in 2012 when Jankowski was drafted, we had little if any quality centremen in the pipeline.

Which is why you always draft BPA. Jankowski was a project at the centre position (which was an organizational need at the time). Olli Maatta was the BPA at the time.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Which is why you always draft BPA. Jankowski was a project at the centre position (which was an organizational need at the time). Olli Maatta was the BPA at the time.

Maatta would have likely been a better pick for the Flames but it's water under the bridge now. Just have to have patience and treat Jankowski as a long term investment. He still could end up a solid contributor for this organization and we will just have to have some patience here as he's still pretty young and about three years behind a guy like Kevin Hayes who also needed some time to develop.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Which is why you always draft BPA. Jankowski was a project at the centre position (which was an organizational need at the time). Olli Maatta was the BPA at the time.

According to the Flames brass they thought they were drafting the BPA and figured he would be remembered as the best player from the draft in 2022.

I truly believe that the Flames fell in love with Jankowsk and would have taken him at 14 if they could not swing the deal to bring in the 2nd round pick. They got a kid who had an incredible growth spurt and had the tools to be a player.

We all knew he was playing 4 years of college. When he decided not to go the USHLnroute I hoped it would accelerate his development but he still needs to play his senior year and then likely needs 2 years in the AHL.

Organizationally the Flames could have used Maata just as much as Jankowski at the time

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Maatta would have likely been a better pick for the Flames but it's water under the bridge now. Just have to have patience and treat Jankowski as a long term investment. He still could end up a solid contributor for this organization and we will just have to have some patience here as he's still pretty young and about three years behind a guy like Kevin Hayes who also needed some time to develop.

Oh I definitely agree, I was just responding to dieHARDflameZ's justification as to why we took Jankowski over Maatta (organizational need). We were light on centres in 2012, so we drafted a centre - the fact that we missed out on Maatta because we (may have) prioritized the centre position due to lack of organizational depth at the position just shows why it should always be BPA. It's just too hard to project your roster 2+ years down the road.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It pretty much consisted of Nemisz, Reinhart, Arnold, and Granlund in the system, with Backlund on the team.

The rather dire situation at centre provides a perfect context for the strength of the Jankowski selection at the time it was made.

Exactly.

People seem to bash the pick because he hasn't played an NHL game yet at age 20, while other picks from his draft class have.

All I'm saying is that people proclaiming we should have taken TT, Ceci, Hertl, Girgensons, Maata etc. aren't even giving Jankowski a chance. As I've said in many posts above, I'll reserve judgement until he's spent a year or two playing professional hockey.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Hackey

This doesn't really fit here since TT was the guy everyone was hoping for before we traded down and Maata was the guy people were hoping for once we did. Not to mention every player in between them looks just as good or better than Jankowski. So it's not really hindsight when virtually every potential outcome would have got us a prospect equal or better than Jankowski.

Bull####. Not everyone was sold on Teravainen, and Maatta was an unknown. Hell PMM actually said he hopes the Flames didn't pick Maatta. I don't know how you can honestly say a guy like Maatta was a missed opportunity when he was the 10th player selected at his position? Even with hindsight that doesn't make sense. But if you really want to know how goofy the draft was you can relive the uncertainty and see how bipolar certain posters become as the whole thing unfolds.

2012 Entry Draft

The number of picks that people consider off the board is really amazing. You would think that after all these years of watching these things people would recognize that after the top three picks it is a crap shoot and every team has their own list of who they think the best players are. What THN or Redline or any of the blogs has to say really has zero to do with who gets picked when. You thinking there is some great list that all teams should comply with, and picking off of that list makes them stupid, is ridiculous.

Mind you, suggesting that player X is better than player Y at this point, when so many have not even played their first games or managed to stick in the NHL is also ridiculous. Let it play out and see how it shakes out, because you're selling some players short and over-selling others before they even establish themselves. I think AC hit the nail on the head when he said, "Posters bitching about us not picking some kid they've never seen play and have only hype to go off of. I'd rather trust our scouts to evaluate the remaining kids and decide whats best for the team. Especially considering how good our last 2 drafts have been."

Again, you have no idea on Jankowski because of extremely limited data. You're basing your knowledge on junior stats and NCAA stats, rather than viewing or comparison opportunities. You seem to forget that the Flames were intent on trading that pick away because they weren't overly impressed with the quality of the players available. The only player that changed that was Mark Jankowski. I really wish Jankowski had an opportunity to skate in the prospects camp last season as it would have given more data for head-to-head comparisons. I think it would have been another instance where we would have seen that Jankowski was right up there with the best players in camp and put people's minds to rest. Hopefully we'll see him in July and the hand wringing will cease. Then again, I'm sure the Jankowski haters will find another thing to complain about, like he's got an unfair advantage because of his age or some nonsense. I trust that the Flames scouts, who have done such a fine job restocking the system and finding talent in every round, have found another quality player in Jankowski. Watching him develop at Providence has me convinced of that fact actually.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Oh I definitely agree, I was just responding to dieHARDflameZ's justification as to why we took Jankowski over Maatta (organizational need). We were light on centres in 2012, so we drafted a centre - the fact that we missed out on Maatta because we (may have) prioritized the centre position due to lack of organizational depth at the position just shows why it should always be BPA.

I'm not justifying why or why not Jankowski was picked. I'm saying given hindsight, it's really easy for people to say now "we should have taken Ceci, Maata, or Girgensons"...etc. Quite frankly at the time, I don't think the Flames were in a position to draft a long term project.

What I am saying though is that guess what, the Flames did draft a long term project, one that by all accounts has taken great strides this year and is learning how to play a complete 200 foot game. He was dynamite in the NCAA regionals as well as the Frozen Four.

Writing him off simply because he has yet to play an NHL game while players x,y and z have is so unbelievably short sighted.

[Igster]

I may have missed it in all the arguing about what pick the Flames should have chosen, but can Jankowski come to Flames camp this season? Does he have a chance to make the team or at least be assigned to the AHL?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Igster

I may have missed it in all the arguing about what pick the Flames should have chosen, but can Jankowski come to Flames camp this season? Does he have a chance to make the team or at least be assigned to the AHL?

NCAA players cannot come to main training camp. If is decided that he wants to forgo his senior year (which is unlikely at this point) then he can come.