New poll: Harper - Conservatives headed for third place next election?

[Senator Clay Davis]

I like how the NDP hasn't served a single day as the actual government, yet they're apparently already the single worst governing party in Western Democratic history.

[PsYcNeT]

I like how we're literally discussing the failure of a party mere weeks after they were sworn in.

Albertans are hilariously over-reactionary.

EDIT: ####ing beaten like a bad kid with Conservative parents

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I like how the NDP hasn't served a single day as the actual government, yet they're apparently already the single worst governing party in Western Democratic history.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I like how we're literally discussing the failure of a party mere weeks after they were sworn in.

I like how how you (and other NDP defenders in this thread) have failed to provide us with any explanation as to how their proposed policies will be beneficial to Alberta's economy.

Instead, when presented with an argument, you tend to deflect as you've done above. It really doesn't add much to the discussion.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

No, I'm not asking that... Literally any of the other major parties, be it Wild Rose, Liberal, Alberta Party, all preferable options. Granted, AP would have had to find candidates in more areas.

Wild Rose - Like I said, rural and socially conservative isn't the selling point it used to be in this province.

AP - Not enough candidates and most voters hardly know who/what they are. Didn't participate in debate.

Lliberals - Still a largely toxic brand in Alberta. Weak leadership. And once the NDP looked like they had a shot at winning, all the Liberal votes went NDP rather than split and let the PCs get in again.

That left the NDP. They had the merit of being:

• To the left of the Wild Rose.
• Not the Conservatives.
• Led by a smart and charismatic candidate.

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Just cause unemployment and debt went up, taxes are higher and investment in the province has declined, doesn't mean the party made a mess of things.

Unemployment was going up and debt was going up regardless of who won the election. Companies have been laying people off for months, and short of laying off thousands of civil servants, there's no quick fix for a deficit caused by a shortfall of $7 billion in energy revenues. They could fire everyone who works for Alberta Health and that wouldn't balance the budget. That's how much the province has come to rely on energy revenues. Restoring a balanced budget will take years, and almost certainly require tax increases.

Originally Posted by stampsx2

It's probably oil prices not poor leadership that did it.

Oil prices ripped a hole in government finances and knee-capped the balance sheets of most companies in this province. That was universally acknowledged a few short weeks ago.

Cripes, the 'stabbed in the back' myths are being fostered already.

[PsYcNeT]

Proof is in the pudding, so far your conjecture regarding NDP rule is as good as mine.

I believe they will be more restrained than the gloom and doom scenarios that have been presented here, Notley in particular is aware of the precarious position she walks despite having a majority government.

As well, I've also mentioned that the economy isn't the end-all-be-all of existing within this province (despite what the last 44 years have shown). Alberta struggles in many other aspects of governance, and my biggest hope for the NDP is to introduce some sweeping (and sorely needed) safety legislation regarding excavation practice in the province.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I like how how you (and other NDP defenders in this thread) have failed to provide us with any explanation as to how their proposed policies will be beneficial to Alberta's economy.

Instead, when presented with an argument, you tend to deflect as you've done above. It really doesn't add much to the discussion.

And the Wild Rose didn't show how they could balance the budget without raising taxes. Parties make all kinds of crazy policy statements during an election.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I like how how you (and other NDP defenders in this thread) have failed to provide us with any explanation as to how their proposed policies will be beneficial to Alberta's economy.

Instead, when presented with an argument, you tend to deflect as you've done above. It really doesn't add much to the discussion.

Couldn't tell you how it will benefit. We haven't actually seen what's going to happen yet. If you know even the slightest bit about politics, you know there's a -100% chance their platform will completely be adopted. It's never happened before, ever, by any political party in my lifetime. So once again here, it's almost a given not everything they say they'll do will actually get done. Usually its in about the 40-60% range.

That said, you seem to strongly believe the absolute worst is coming. Fair enough...so have you planned your move out of the province yet? If you seriously anticipate an economic calamity is coming, I assume you're planning on moving right?

[Zarley]

I just realized that we've hijacked the federal thread with provincial talk, perhaps we should switch threads?

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Couldn't tell you how it will benefit. We haven't actually seen what's going to happen yet. If you know even the slightest bit about politics, you know there's a -100% chance their platform will completely be adopted. It's never happened before, ever, by any political party in my lifetime. So once again here, it's almost a given not everything they say they'll do will actually get done. Usually its in about the 40-60% range.

Yes, I realize this. The Alberta government has been overspending since the early 2000s. Our per capita expenditures are off the charts. Almost every NDP policy plank that isn't related to tax increases involves increased spending. What's worse is that most of the increased spending is operational rather than capital in nature. Based on their platform, I don't foresee an increase in the type of infrastructure investment that would be beneficial for economic growth and soften the blow of the rest of their incoming fiscal policy. Even if half of the platform planks are implemented in government policy, it will have a negative impact on the province.

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

That said, you seem to strongly believe the absolute worst is coming. Fair enough...so have you planned your move out of the province yet? If you seriously anticipate an economic calamity is coming, I assume you're planning on moving right?

Great contribution to the discussion!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I like how we're literally discussing the failure of a party mere weeks after they were sworn in.

Albertans are hilariously over-reactionary.

EDIT: ####ing beaten like a bad kid with Conservative parents

Well they haven't actually been sworn in yet. Basically they haven't even served a day yet, and we are writing them off. I think opponents ought to be careful; what position will you take if they have an economic tailwind and the economy is fine? That's my hope (as an Albertan). Then it's the old "we had three percent growth but we might have had four", and that's a tough argument to make.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well they haven't actually been sworn in yet. Basically they haven't even served a day yet, and we are writing them off. I think opponents ought to be careful; what position will you take if they have an economic tailwind and the economy is fine? That's my hope (as an Albertan). Then it's the old "we had three percent growth but we might have had four", and that's a tough argument to make.

I would love nothing more than this to happen. I just don't have confidence in the NDP to deliver, but hope to be proven wrong.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I just realized that we've hijacked the federal thread with provincial talk, perhaps we should switch threads?



Yes, I realize this. The Alberta government has been overspending since the early 2000s. Our per capita expenditures are off the charts. Almost every NDP policy plank that isn't related to tax increases involves increased spending. What's worse is that most of the increased spending is operational rather than capital in nature. Based on their platform, I don't foresee an increase in the type of infrastructure investment that would be beneficial for economic growth and soften the blow of the rest of their incoming fiscal policy. Even if half of the platform planks are implemented in government policy, it will have a negative impact on the province.



Great contribution to the discussion!

You choose to believe the absolute worst is coming. So it is worth wondering whether you truly believe it, or if you're acting over the top scared but are not actually scared. If you are moving, you practice what you preach. If you aren't, you're being absurdly hyperbolic. You truly have no idea what is coming. What if 3 years from now the economy is great? I'm guessing you'll give the NDP no credit and claim something else is primarily responsible.

I'm actually not an NDP supporter at all. I'm truly not sure what's to come. I just know the PC plan was to be on their knees for corporations (and to be corrupt as hell), and the Wildrose plan was no tax increases and....???? So you're acting like the NDP was a catastrophic choice, when really there were no good choices at all.

Had the PCs won, taxes would be going up anyways on everyone but the richest people. If the WR won, there would be no plan. I'm not too sure what makes the NDP significantly worse than those options

[Fuzz]

moved to provincial thread.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I find it unfortunate that so many people base their vote on impressions of the party leader rather than on policy. That's the nature of politics I guess.

I wish more people voted solely on their local candidates, rather than party or leaders. Why anyone voted for Rob Anders year after year is beyond me.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I like how the NDP hasn't served a single day as the actual government, yet they're apparently already the single worst governing party in Western Democratic history.

Based on past records in other provinces. One i actually lived in, expieienced and moved to alberta for the greater opportunity, tax advantages and low unemployment rate. Now, here they are again.

I want to hope for the best but what in their platform shows prosperity for alberta in the future? Raising minimum wage, $25 a day daycare, raising corporate taxes, letting public unions run the show, better health care when we already pay the second most? To me this screams social spending not a prosperous province.

Sure it will put money in our wallets now but at what cost. Hope for the best.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Based on past records in other provinces. One i actually lived in, expieienced and moved to alberta for the greater opportunity, tax advantages and low unemployment rate. Now, here they are again.

Yes, you moved here to enjoy unsustainable tax rates boosted by high oil prices. Exactly why the NDP is in power.... PC GROSS mismanagement. But instead of talking about that, lets talk about the alleged NDP poor policies from other provinces decades ago, despite cold hard data showing the NDP balances budgets better than other parties.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Based on past records in other provinces. One i actually lived in, expieienced and moved to alberta for the greater opportunity, tax advantages and low unemployment rate. Now, here they are again.

I want to hope for the best but what in their platform shows prosperity for alberta in the future? Raising minimum wage, $25 a day daycare, raising corporate taxes, letting public unions run the show, better health care when we already pay the second most? To me this screams social spending not a prosperous province.

Sure it will put money in our wallets now but at what cost. Hope for the best.

So are you moving back to where you came from for greater opportunity, tax advantages, and low unemployment?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Guys there is a whole thread for the provincial election--let's keep the two separate.

[octothorp]

I was a bit incredulous when pundits last week were talking about the impact that the NDP win might have on the federal party's prospects, so I'm very surprised with the latest Ekos poll where they've gotten a pretty big bump. One of the quirks that caught my eye is that the NDP have an arguable claim to the most 'nationally representative' party, with 20% or more in every region that Ekos tracks, something that no other party could claim.

However, they're still down significantly in BC/Prairies/Atlantic Canada from where they were polling right before the 2011 election (using the last Ekos poll before the last election). Of course, the CPC is down significantly in every region except Quebec and Atlantic Canada.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Me too--when people would ask "what impact will this have federally," my answer was generally a pretty confident "nothing." Now it's too early to tell if I'm wrong, but I'm at least doubting myself.

[Tinordi]

These polling numbers are suggesting that we're headed to an unprecedented period of federal politics