Gender neutrality and political correctness discussion

[polak]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Read that again.


You don't see anything wrong with the statement?

Actually, let me help you. Your statement means that women lack the ability to play sports, or learn sport related skill sets.


Let us try this statement:


Men are worse at being nurses than men.

Women are worse at most sciences than men.

I know a number of nationally ranked female athletes. Are they "better" than their male counter parts, actually in some manner they are, some can execute skills better than their male counter parts.

What? You're really grasping at straws here.

I mean on comparative levels, women are worse at sports than men. Yes, there are obviously women who are better at their sport than the vast majority of men but there most likely are always plenty of men that are better than that woman.

Serena Williams could probably destroy every single person you know at Tennis and the womens game is barely a competition for her. It's at the point where people complain about how much better she is than the rest of the womens tour... but this expert claims she'd have to drop down to the 300-350th ranked mens player to find a comparable player.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ten...f-Tarango.html

That's where the gender stereotype is routed in. Not picking a random guy and a random girl of the street and pinning them against each other.

[Bmuzyka]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I didn't say you were racist, I said you were thinking like a dude from 1904.

Really, race doesn't exist any more, it never really did. We're all mutts, and we're all better for realizing it.

The idea of race however still persists, because people love to categorize.

If race didn't exist anymore, then I suppose that Doctors wouldn't care about ethnicity at all when trying to diagnose certain rare diseases which are much more prone to people whose heritage comes from different parts of the world.

http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/handbook/inheritance/ethnicgroup

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by polak

What? You're really grasping at straws here.

I mean on comparative levels, women are worse at sports than men. Yes, there are obviously women who are better at their sport than the vast majority of men but there most likely are always plenty of men that are better than that woman.

Serena Williams could probably destroy every single person you know at Tennis but this expert claims she'd have to drop down to the 300-350th ranked mens player to find a comparable player.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ten...f-Tarango.html

That's where the gender stereotype is routed in. Not picking a random guy and a random girl of the street and pinning them against each other.

Post your manliness resume and a picture to see if you live up to my definition of manliness, then I will engage in further discussion with you.

[Resolute 14]

In general, this debate is basically a parallel of the Washington Redskins debate. And it generally boils down to people saying "I am part of the race/gender that is privileged and holds the power. Since I do not find this offensive, all of you lesser people should not either."

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

In general, this debate is basically a parallel of the Washington Redskins debate. And it generally boils down to people saying "I am part of the race/gender that is privileged and holds the power. Since I do not find this offensive, all of you lesser people should not either."

So and that is why I think it will benefit the discusison if we all post our manliness resume, and hell a photo to see if we match up.

ThHose that score high on my random, secret manliness quotient will have their contributions recieved as more important and correct.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Bmuzyka

If race didn't exist anymore, then I suppose that Doctors wouldn't care about ethnicity at all when trying to diagnose certain rare diseases which are much more prone to people whose heritage comes from different parts of the world.

http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/handbook/inheritance/ethnicgroup

Genetics does not equate to race, because race is a social construct while genetics are biological science.

[rotten42]

There is so much butt hurt here.

[terminator]

So does gender equality proponents demand children names be hyphenated? Should women no longer accept their husband's name? Or should husbands and wives trade names in the spirit of equality?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by terminator

So does gender equality proponents demand children names be hyphenated? Should women no longer accept their husband's name? Or should husbands and wives trade names in the spirit of equality?

In Germany, brides and grooms elect which surname to use after the marriage. Can pick either one.

[terminator]

Originally Posted by troutman

In Germany, brides and grooms elect which surname to use after the marriage. Can pick either one.

In Sikhisim gender does not exist and last names are not to be used.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by V

That's pretty much exactly the same reason I don't think the Sedin sisters crack is insulting to women. What it's basically saying is that they aren't fulfilling their proper gender roles adequately.

This isn't really any better. You're substituting a view of the joke that is associated with sexism for one that's associated with transphobia.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by terminator

So does gender equality proponents demand children names be hyphenated? Should women no longer accept their husband's name? Or should husbands and wives trade names in the spirit of equality?

"Gender equality proponents" likely all have varying opinions, but I think those decisions should be up to the persons involved, and aren't really the concern of anyone else.

In the interest of disclosure, my wife did not take my last name because I don't care and she already has an established career under her name and did not want to go through the hassle, however we want our (future) child to have my name because we think hyphenated names are stupid and she doesn't want their job prospects to be colored by the ethnic background associated with her last name. A harsh reality of the world we live in.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

No one takes "offense to their education". That's total nonsense and you either know it is when you stop to think about it, or you're not particularly bright.

It's obvious, however, that using race, sexual orientation, gender, these innate characteristics that have historical baggage attached to them as pejorative terms isn't okay. If you still do it, you're kind of a dick.

EDIT: By the way, the sentence in the OP that "It's not nice to call a man a girl" demonstrates how completely you've lost the plot here. The fact that you think that's self-evident, that being called a girl is inherently a bad thing, is exactly the problem.

Interesting position to take considering a couple days ago you posted the following:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Jim Benning is literally a ######. There's no other explanation, he must actually have brain damage. Combined, these two contracts are basically the Canucks' version of David Clarkson.

You have no credibility lecturing others on being politically correct when, in 2015, you think it's okay to call someone a ######. Or is it your contention that joking about gender and sexual orientation is a more heinous crime than using a socially unacceptable word to compare a man to someone who has brain damage because you think he makes poor decisions?

Honestly can't tell if you're actually passionate about this or if you're just trolling...

As an aside, my opinion is that both extreme sides of this debate make it nearly impossible to discuss this subject rationally, especially on an anonymous internet message board. It's like an atheist and a priest trying to come to an agreement on the existence of god while two groups of people randomly throw rotten fruit and vegetables at the side they don't agree with. Entertaining, yes. Winning hearts and minds... not so much.

[terminator]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

"Gender equality proponents" likely all have varying opinions, but I think those decisions should be up to the persons involved, and aren't really the concern of anyone else.

In the interest of disclosure, my wife did not take my last name because I don't care and she already has an established career under her name and did not want to go through the hassle, however we want our (future) child to have my name because we think hyphenated names are stupid and she doesn't want their job prospects to be colored by the ethnic background associated with her last name. A harsh reality of the world we live in.

Don't need to remind me of job prospecting and racism.

[Tinordi]

Racist and sexist people talking about things that annoy them on the internet.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

You have no credibility lecturing others on being politically correct when, in 2015, you think it's okay to call someone a ######.

Yup, you're right. Mea culpa. I absolutely should not have used that term to describe Jim Benning. Incompetent was the much better word.

Now that that's done, want to set aside the ad hominem and engage the substance?

As an aside, my opinion is that both extreme sides of this debate make it nearly impossible to discuss this subject rationally, especially on an anonymous internet message board. It's like an atheist and a priest trying to come to an agreement on the existence of god while two groups of people randomly throw rotten fruit and vegetables at the side they don't agree with. Entertaining, yes. Winning hearts and minds... not so much.

There's no grey area here. Winning the hearts and minds of people who are being sexist? If they can't recognize their own error here and say, "yes, I can see why I'm wrong there, in future I'll make an effort to refrain from talking that way", it reflects poorly on them and they should receive a proportionate amount of shaming.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by terminator

In Sikhisim gender does not exist and last names are not to be used.

Really?
I'm Sikh and we use last names.
Sikh middle names also identify gender; Singh for males, Kaur for females.
When we have our Sikh wedding this summer, she is taking on my last name.

[terminator]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Really?
I'm Sikh and we use last names.
Sikh middle names also identify gender; Singh for males, Kaur for females.
When we have our Sikh wedding this summer, she is taking on my last name.

Incorrect, post 1947 manifestations.

In sikhisim there is a bride groom relationship between god and his subjects. Subjects = bride, god=groom.

Ever wonder what the meaning of Kaur is? Kaur means Prince not Princess FYI. Look no further then nihung leaders Akali Kaur Singh.

In practicality there is a difference between male and female, but that does not lead to inequality, hence why Guru Gobind Singh gave women Kaur, an identity to preserve beyond marriage and dismiss male dominance.

The taking on of the name is a western manifestation, it happens now. But according to gurmat there are no last names.

Edit: I am not a Sikh, but from a Sikh family.

[Igottago]

I've actually had women call me "princess" before as a joke (I am male, and not of royal blood). Neither myself or them were offended for all of womankind.

In cases like this I leave it up the offended party to decide. Honestly if enough women find that type of comment degrading, it should probably change. Similar to the Redskins argument.

But I think there are a lot of women with a sense of humor and who are completely comfortable with their femininity who would get a kick out of ribbing a guy for "throwing like a girl" or something.

[Ducay]

You're legally entitled to call them the "sisters" since they're just a couple of pusies [sp]. amirite?

/end debate
/incoming mod delete