Lance Bouma: what sort of contract has he earned?

[thymebalm]

It's silly to give Lance a bridge contract. We know exactly what kind of player we have. He doesn't need a "show me" contract. He just showed everyone all year why Treliving called him "The DNA of the Calgary Flames." He so thoroughly embodies the identity of the Flames that I believe his influence is next only to Giordano in terms of how to play the game the right way. Maybe he's not a prenennial 20 goal scorer, but he's so valuable for more than just the goals he's scored this year.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by polak

He needs a bridge contract.

Why?

You already know what kind of scorer he will be in his prime, and he has as much heart as 10 other 3rd line guys put together.

What does he need to prove?

[Gaudfather]

Do we really know yet what Bouma will be?

Brief recap:

2011/12 Season - 3 pts with Flames (spent over half season in AHL)
2012/13 Season - injured
2013/14 Season - 15 points
2014/15 season - 33 points (six games to go yet).

Is Bouma having an unusually good year this year - or is he still finding his ceiling and next year could be 40 pts or more? We don't know yet, but consensus seems to want to sell the guy short. Will be interesting to see this unfold.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Why?

You already know what kind of scorer he will be in his prime, and he has as much heart as 10 other 3rd line guys put together.

What does he need to prove?

Yeah I am not sure we do know, to be honest. It would be nice to have another season to "know" what type of scorer he will be in his prime.

To be honest, it is not his production that makes me want the flames to keep him, rather it is his defensive work that warrants a new contract.

[polak]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Why?

You already know what kind of scorer he will be in his prime, and he has as much heart as 10 other 3rd line guys put together.

What does he need to prove?

What? He's been a bonafide NHL'er for a year. This could be a fluke, or he could have a breakout year next year.

Definitely has a ton to prove still.

[FlameZilla]

His agent will point to Bollig's contract, or Raymond's contract and say "Lance is contributing much more to the success of the Calgary Flames than these guys. Why should he be paid any less?'

$2.5m X 4 years makes sense on many levels. It also adds us to a very pleasing sum which Bouma's camp would probably be very pleased to accept. It also accounts for a bit of regression in his play, should it happen, and it also buys 2 years of his UFA status.

As has been mentioned, you can't really give Boums a 'bridge contract' unless it's a 1 year deal (or he secretly works for an engineering firm on the side).

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by polak

What? He's been a bonafide NHL'er for a year. This could be a fluke, or he could have a breakout year next year.

Definitely has a ton to prove still.

I understand your point, however I disagree he has a ton to prove.

Like I said we should offer him 3 or 4 years. The dollars at this point will work themselves out based on the market at negotiation time. In my mind, it'll likely work out to 3x3 or 4x2.5 roundabouts.

If he ends up plateauing, regressing, or improving points-wise, any of the above contracts will still look good. You know he isn't going to give up on plays, make dumb defensive mistakes trying to be fancy, you know he'll sacrifice his body, be a team player, and generally have a great attitude and do things right.

A bridge contract might end up costing the Flames more money down the line if he improves points-wise since another team who is desperate might come in an offer him the 4 million per if he ends up with 20 g next year. Then we are hooped.

EDIT: PS: I think he's been an NHLer for at least 2 years.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

His agent will point to Bollig's contract, or Raymond's contract and say "Lance is contributing much more to the success of the Calgary Flames than these guys. Why should he be paid any less?'

Raymond was a UFA contract ... Bouma has two more years before he becomes UFA, so that's a completely different thing and not comparable. And Bollig earns 1.3m - of course Bouma deserves more and I highly doubt the Flames would dispute this. I think Alex Killorn and Antoine Roussel might be better comparables - similar age as Bouma and both signed new deals last season. Killorn signed for 2 years at 2.55m after a 17g 41p season, while Roussel signed for 4 years at 2.0m after a 14g 29p season. I think it'd be fair for both parties if the Bouma contract ended up in that ballpark - Roussel term with Killorn AAV makes sense for both sides IMO.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

His agent will point to Bollig's contract, or Raymond's contract and say "Lance is contributing much more to the success of the Calgary Flames than these guys. Why should he be paid any less?'

At which point Management can point out that Raymond was a UFA and had three times the NHL experience that Bouma has and then say "no less then Bollig? Okey I'll gladly sign him to Bollig money".

[Sylvanfan]

Well for a guy like Bouma, this will most likely be his career season. Term wise I think 4 years is as long as I'd like to go although if 12 million over 5 years was what it took to make the contract longer than 2 years, I likely wouldn't balk at it. Essentially making the annual salary's of

1.5
2.0
2.4
2.85
3.25

Towards the end it could be a bit expensive if he starts breaking down. But there is no reason to believe that the intangibles will go away. Granted, look at Marcus Nilson and how he basically fell apart. So that is the risk here with Bouma.

[Camronius]

I'm not sure why there are so many advocating to "see more of Lance Bouma" before negotiating a contract.... If you think there is upside there, great! Sign him cheap for what he has shown thus far and lock him up for the next 4 years at a good price. Good teams succeed by getting valuable assets on cheaper contracts. Especially bottom 6 forwards.

It almost seems like a bunch of you are advocating for him to put up a couple of 60 pt years and then negotiate his contract, which could be significantly higher. I'd much rather lock him up on the cheap now based on what he has done thus far and be amazed when/if he over achieves.

Based on what he's shown, I don't think the risk is high that we will overpay him. So say we agree 4 years @ 2 mill per is fair? What does it take to under-perform on that contract? Say he puts up 10 G's and 30 points next year, is he under-performing by what? 500k-ish? What if he puts up 60 pts? He's over performing by potentially millions....

Sign him cheap, get it done imo.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by polak

He needs a bridge contract.

IMO, this current contract was his 'bridge' deal. He played out his entry level deal with us, and then signed a 1yr deal with us last summer.

Now I don't believe you go re-signing him under the assumption that he will match this production every season going forward. Bouma's agent will leverage this season against Treliving, while Treliving will counter with the 2013/14 season. The end deal falls in the middle, for what you'd pay a 12G + 15A, heart and soul, 3rd line banger. Something like a 3yr deal @ $2M per.

I can't see Prust dollars, as he was a UFA.

[DoubleF]

My first instinct is to look at Byron's contract. IIRC, we kept thinking he would get 1.x million. What did he get? A show me contract after hitting waivers or something?

I could see similarities for the treatment of Bouma. Trelving is a shrewd fella. I don't think Bouma gets 3 mil per year, but then again, I'm not really a contracts fella either. It's business. I don't think he will downright insult Bouma, but I don't think he will be super lenient because he's a fan favourite either. I'd expect similar comments from the Bouma contract as the Brodie contract once Treliving is done (good value and term). I'm thinking there's going to be some very good value contracts for all our players shooting out of the pipeline soon.

[ForeverFlameFan]

2,000,000 x 4 years.

[Huntingwhale]

I don't care what Bouma makes because I don't pay a cent of his salary. I just want him back, period.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Haven't read through all the thread, and not sure how my comment will get taken, but Lance Bouma is such a tricky and risky situation for the Flames in many directions. You want to make sure a heart and soul guy is with you for the long term, but you also don't want to overpay for what he brings, which is a huge risk right now for a bunch of reasons.

1. People keep saying we know what we've got in Lance, but we don't. We do know for sure he's a heart and soul, lay it on the line guy. What we don't know is if he really is a 15 to 20 goal scorer on a regular basis. Points wise, he's on a career year, but he's also now scored more goals this year in the NHL than he ever scored in a single junior season. To question whether Bouma's scoring tough and ability to provide solid solid, secondary scoring for this team will continue beyond this year is very fair.

2. It's also risky because this is a team right now that is "over-achieving" based on all the types of things that Bouma brings. Heart, blocked shots, effort, etc.... Sure, we are more talented than people thought, that's part of it too, but we are also just better coached, have more heart and work hearder than other teams. Bouma is the poster child for that. While, that will ALWAYS be important on a winning team, and this is tough to say with out it being taken to far the other way, but right now the Flames are also in a position of overvaluing that intangible because it is a key differentiator for us. As we continue to get more talented, we will rely less on the "Bouma type efforts" to win games. We will always need the Bouma's of the world to provide what they do, even as a talented team, but it's also key to unsure you don't overpay for those "intangibles", you have to find them affordably.

Anyway, lots of rambling, but this is a really interesting one. Bouma's a key part of this team, and the Flames want to lock up his intangibles moving forward. But it's also key they don't overpay for them, because there is a lot of upgrading the talent of this team that needs to happen for us to get to a true contender state, and that costs. You can't tie too much dollars up in players that bring the workman like attitude and have enough left over to pay for the talent. And, you'd be willing to pay Bouma if he can bring the work, and put up close to 20 every year, but I'd say it's fair to question whether Bouma's offence this year is a one year blip, or what he's going to provide moving forward.

Such a tricky contract for the Flames, with tones of room for a massive overpayment IMO that might come back to haunt us in a few years, depending on length, but at the same time, such a valuable character guy you want to reward and keep happy.

[Erick Estrada]

Flames have a flexible cap situation so I believe both parties will be able to strike a fair deal but I'm always weary of bottom six forwards coming off what is likely a career season. It's very likely he's never going to be a 20 goal guy like Glencross and that 10 goals is likely what to expect on average over his next deal. That said he brings more to the table that just goals but the issue for him is that intangibles don't necessarily translate to as much or more pay than players that put up more goals/points.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I don't care what Bouma makes because I don't pay a cent of his salary. I just want him back, period.

You should care because of the salary cap. In a few years the Flames can't afford to have too many over price players. I think 4 years $10 million total is fair for both sides.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Flames have a flexible cap situation so I believe both parties will be able to strike a fair deal but I'm always weary of bottom six forwards coming off what is likely a career season. It's very likely he's never going to be a 20 goal guy like Glencross and that 10 goals is likely what to expect on average over his next deal. That said he brings more to the table that just goals but the issue for him is that intangibles don't necessarily translate to as much or more pay than players that put up more goals/points.

Same here... Bouma has been really fun to watch, but there is always that history of bottom 6 players that suddenly vault up in scoring but then fall back to earth.

My guess is somewhere around a 1 year, $2.5M deal.

[CroFlames]

Giving him a 1 year deal IMO is a slap in the face to him.

Why does he need to prove more than he already has?