[Signing] Flames sign Mason Raymond (3yrs, $3.15mil AAV, modified NTC)

[locsofblu]

Raymond is pretty useless most nights. He's just not that smart of a hockey player.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why? He will likely be better in the 2nd year of the deal. If it was a 4 year deal then maybe you could look at it as a mistake but I feel confident he will be a better player next year for this team as I subscribe to the adage that it sometimes takes a player a year to feel comfortable on a new team. Guys like Hudler and Russell have got better every season for the Flames as they have become more comfortable.

Raymond had a career year in year #1 Toronto.... Carlye that much of a better coach than Hartley??

True he peaked in year 3 in Vancouver but then had 3 progressively worse season to the point that the Canucks didn't want him on a tryout contract.

He has has 2 good years out of 8 .... but next year he will be good?

The Russell myth also wears on me... He was the best D-man in junior hockey and a regular in the NHL as a 20 year old. He played a grand total of 14 games in the AHL.

He got lost in St.L with them getting Leopold and then Bouwmeester.

In Calgary he just took the same progression he was on in Columbus.

And Hudler.... Maybe he is a bet better than year #1 in Calgary when he played on a the smallest wimpiest team in the league and had Roman Cervenka as his linemate.

If he was forced to play all 3 years with Cervenka as his linemate he would be retiring to the KHL next year.

[Anduril]

Rarely do you hear people ragging Raymond about missing chances and breakaways.

He just doesn't provide anything right now and wouldn't be surprised to see him in the press box often next season.

[Chingas]

I realise that Raymond will never be a physical player, but he rarely uses his one assett which is his speed.

I have rarely seen him put his head down and hustle back into the defensive zone on the back check. For a few games when we saw him paired up with Shore on his line it was very obvious. Shore would bust his hump to get back while the "fast" Raymond would lethargically wander back.

Quite often he tends to do one of two things when he has the puck. He either telegraphs his pass to a teammate so obviously that Stevie Wonder could see it coming; or he throws the puck to a bad area of the ice at an alarmingly high percentage.

In response to the poster that has suggested being stuck with Colborne has worked against him I will counter with the comment that he has been given a far greater power play time than his play and results would suggest he deserves.

He is a classic case of where I struggle to see what the coaches do in his game. It bothers me because I love the majority of the decisions that Hartly makes and it makes me wonder what I am doing wrong that I can't see what Hartly is seeing.

[hackamore]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Raymond had a career year in year #1 Toronto.... Carlye that much of a better coach than Hartley??

True he peaked in year 3 in Vancouver but then had 3 progressively worse season to the point that the Canucks didn't want him on a tryout contract.

He has has 2 good years out of 8 .... but next year he will be good?

The Russell myth also wears on me... He was the best D-man in junior hockey and a regular in the NHL as a 20 year old. He played a grand total of 14 games in the AHL.

He got lost in St.L with them getting Leopold and then Bouwmeester.

In Calgary he just took the same progression he was on in Columbus.

And Hudler.... Maybe he is a bet better than year #1 in Calgary when he played on a the smallest wimpiest team in the league and had Roman Cervenka as his linemate.

If he was forced to play all 3 years with Cervenka as his linemate he would be retiring to the KHL next year.

Raymond had his career year in Vancouver, the next year he struggled with injuries, but after the Sedin's still had best possession numbers on the team. Think Byran but with much better finish. He has also always been a good penalty killer, but has not been used in that situation in Calgary at all. He put up decent numbers on the powerplay both in Vancouver and Toronto, so curious why all of a sudden in Calgary he struggles. Last two years in Vancouver he was recovering from a broken back, so yeah, surprisingly he had some regression. Would have interesting to see where his play went if he had not sustained that particular injury. If he was a more consistent goal scorer he would have a whole lot more money in his bank account, like most players with his similar stats line. He has been out of sync this year, but not ready to completely dismiss a bounce back next year.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

If you think that Byron gives this team more than Raymond or any other forward for that matter I really have to ask you to take off the rose colored glasses. Raymond's play nor his contract hurt the Flames at all, a rough first season here marred by injuries....something we've all seen before and will see again with other players.

The fact the Raymond hasn't had the luxury of playing with any players regularly outside of Colborne, who has proven to be pretty one dimensional goes to show why his statistics are so unbalanced - the guy is still on pace of 20 goals.

lol, considering Raymond is from Calgary I figured it was only a matter of time before one of his friends or family members came along to respond with a butthurt garbage post like this one.

Byron, despite being much smaller, is a much tougher player to play against than Mason, and Byron uses his speed much better as well.

If it's "injuries" that are holding Raymond back from actually being an effective player for this team (like you say), then it would him (and the team) some good to sit in the pressbox and heal.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why? He will likely be better in the 2nd year of the deal. If it was a 4 year deal then maybe you could look at it as a mistake but I feel confident he will be a better player next year for this team as I subscribe to the adage that it sometimes takes a player a year to feel comfortable on a new team. Guys like Hudler and Russell have got better every season for the Flames as they have become more comfortable.

A two year deal would have given Treliving more options IMO. If he works out, great, you can look at resigning him after the 2nd year. If he doesn't, then he becomes trade bait in the 2nd year on an expiring deal. But right now I think the Flames will be stuck with him next year regardless while there are several players on the farm that are ready to take his roster spot. Raymond has had more than enough time to get comfortable with the team but has managed to play worse as the season has progressed

I don't blame Treliving for the signing, at the time it was a good move to make. But he had to have known that in a couple of years he'd have guys like Gaudreau and Bennett on the team with maybe a couple of other guys from the farm club making the jump, so why give Raymond that extra year? This is a guy that only last season had to go to the Leafs on a tryout before getting a contract, the demand couldn't have been that high

[GranteedEV]

FWIW, while I'm not really happy about Mason Raymond, I do think he'd be more effective playing with a better center like Bennett on the PP and Backlund in 5v5. Brutal as he's been most nights, he's still on a 21 goal pace this season.

...But I also think Granlund and Poirier, and Byron, and Jooris deserve spots over him. He's just a poor fit in my opinion.

[getbak]

It seems like he's having a typical Mason Raymond season. He's always been a pretty streaky player who will put up a bunch of points over a few games, then get nothing for a bunch of games.

Now would be the perfect time for one of those hot streaks.

[Itse]

We needed a guy on the left side, a guy who was fast enough for teams style and who could put up some goals. (That was the big question mark before the season, funny as it seems now.) Raymonds pace this season would amount to 21 goals and 33 points over 82 games. His career averages would be 18 goals and 39 points.

Considering his post-injury play was clearly his worst stretch, overall I think we can say that outside of the injury he has mostly delivered what was expected of him. I think his production has been especially decent considering that he's been mostly playing on the 3rd line instead of top 6. It's awesome that both Bouma and Gaudreau passed him, but not something you could have counted on as a GM.

Paying 3.1M for an above average depth scorer is something the team can easily do right now, and when the time comes to move him he should be an easy sell.

Tl;dr:

Too bad about the injury, but other than that I'm fine with Raymond.

[GioforPM]

Having never watched Raymond closely, but having seen his point totals, it seems to me that while I understand the frustrations in his game - not great defence, some giveaways, and not physical, his point totals do seems to say he's producing as expected.

I also think that some posters determined early on to dislike his play and after that, mistakes were magnified. A blind pass which gets picked off or locked gets a lot more criticism that other players.

He's not my favorite either, in fact, probably close to the bottom of my own list of Flames. But I think he's been what they expected. A depth scorer capable of a 20 goal season.

[Frequitude]

Funny, I'd actually forgotten he was on the team until I saw this thread bumped.

[Phaneufenstein]

The most frustrating part of Raymond's play is watching him shying away from any type of contact.

I guess a number of injuries throughout one's career, including some severe ones (ie broken back) will make you more tentative.

Although, I'm sure Treliving was well aware of this possibility before signing the guy and decided to go through with it regardless.

It was stressed by the GM, that his main worry going into the season is scoring, and I think he signed this fairly inexpensive deal to provide more offense, not expecting the younger players to produce as they have.

[GioforPM]

I don't have a big problem with his pay. I don't like the term that much, or the NMC. I think that they didn't expect the kids to develop as fast, including Gaudreau and Jooris making the team out of camp, or Granlund to be such a decent call-up. So they will have a tough decision to make for next year IMO. They may consider a buyout.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Funny, I'd actually forgotten he was on the team until I saw this thread bumped.

Hopefully Raymond forgot too and this thread reminds him.

[Poe969]

In all honesty, I didn't like the Raymond signing from the start but he's on the team and he's had his ups and downs. Before we run him out of town, lets remember how bad Wideman was from time to time. Some people (myself included) were ready to trade him at the first chance or do anything else to get him off the team and look at him now. I'm not saying Raymond will all of a sudden turn into an amazing player but he's on the team and the team is doing well right now. Let's just wait this out and see where it goes. As long as there isn't a player who's better suited for the team to take his spot, he's on the team. It could be a lot worse...

[Five-hole]

What annoys me about his play is that he never wins battles. He'll lose battles that most players would win. Very little compete in his game along the boards. (Which, as some others have pointed out, makes him a very antithetical linemate for Backlund and Colborne.)

[JJ1532]

Whilst it may comes across as jumping on the "Lets bash Raymond" bandwagon:

Raymond has 6 hits in 47 games for the Flames. Over an 82 game season, that would put him on a total of 10. Johnny on the other hand has 14 in 71 games. Thats 16 over a full season. So Johnny is on pace to outhit Raymond.

Now, you could argue that hitting isn't Raymonds game, but when Johnny is on a better hits per game ratio, you know something isn't right.

[heep223]

The reason his speed doesn't appear effective is because he's loathe to use it. Using it would mean that he's going to have to protect the puck (something he doesn't seem that good at) and get hit a lot. He could be a great player if he drove the net more and used his speed wide, hopefully he will realize this!

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

What annoys me about his play is that he never wins battles. He'll lose battles that most players would win.

What annoys me is that this was Hartley's knock on Sven yet it's a double standard for Mason. It's time to sit Mason Raymond.