Why Leaving Canada Makes Sense for Alberta

[V]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Would you have been happier if I softened my post by using the word "dislike" instead of "hate"?

If you're earnestly searching for what would make us all happier, the quickest and most efficient answer would be to stop posting altogether.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by V

If you're earnestly searching for what would make us all happier, the quickest and most efficient answer would be to stop posting altogether.

Posts like these are just rude.

[AcGold]

Separatist? OK I'll hear you out. Join the US? Hah! That's a joke right?

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I love the States and love Americans. I just wouldn't want to be one.

*nods* I am an American. I was born in Washington. Lived there until I was 3. My dad is/was an American as well, and all of his side of the family is still in the US. I love the US, and I love my American family very much. But I am still actively seeking Canadian citizenship because I do not like the direction my home country has moved in the past several years. I don't hate my own country, it's just that I no longer understand it. I have made my home here - I have raised my children here, I love my adopted province very much. Going off the presumption that this secession is ever even likely to occur, I would also have to move. I have no interest in being a part of the US any longer, for the reasons I have mentioned above. I like Alberta just fine the way it is.

[D as in David]

Definitely wouldn't want Alberta to become part of the U.S. but I'd be willing to sell them Edmonton if the price was right.

[Resolute 14]

Joining the US would be suicidal for Alberta. In Canada, we are an abused province that is nonetheless a major economic power within the country. In the US, we would be equally abused but largely irrelevant economically.

[AcGold]

Insignificant while our resources are raped. They'd just take everything then sell it back for a few thousand bucks, not like Alberta would have any rights under the US rule. They don't follow their own constitution. It would be like throwing a sheep into a wolfs den.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Joining the US would be suicidal for Alberta. In Canada, we are an abused province that is nonetheless a major economic power within the country. In the US, we would be equally abused but largely irrelevant economically.

If we could just get some right-wing Alberta boys running the show in Ottawa, we'd be golden! NO MORE ABUSE!

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Insignificant while our resources are raped. They'd just take everything then sell it back for a few thousand bucks, not like Alberta would have any rights under the US rule. They don't follow their own constitution. It would be like throwing a sheep into a wolfs den.

States have enormous autonomy.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Did this strike anyone as a little odd?


Apparently the US is going to be energy independent in about a year and a half, but they'd be happy to scoop up Alberta to become energy independent "overnight".

So, umm, he sees this happening before the end of 2016? Or, as I might suspect, this is just a bunch of poorly thought-out bull#### that the Herald should be embarrassed to print?

Actually, I think they wouldnt want us. At least one party wouldnt. The last time they added states, they added Hawaii and Alaska at about the same time. That added one democratic and one republic state, so the balance of power in the Senate wasnt changed by the addition. To add Alberta (which would probably vote republican) theyd need to find a democratic state to add at the same time or the addition would never get through. Maybe if Puerto Rico wanted in at the same time...

In any case, even if Alberta did separate, there is no way the populace would want to join the US.

[GP_Matt]

I can't picture Alberta voting Republican if they looked into it too much. Maybe as a gut reaction but I think the Republicans fall in the right of the Wildrose on most issues.

Also, the idea of going independent is a crazy one. Alberta would be completely landlocked which would not improve the situation here. Joining the states is the only practical solution if we split but we would have to be abused pretty badly here before we would separate.

The only thing I can picture is if Alberta had a small separatist group and the province leveraged it for more autonomy. Now if BC and the territories wanted to split with us....

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I can't picture Alberta voting Republican if they looked into it too much. Maybe as a gut reaction but I think the Republicans fall in the right of the Wildrose on most issues.

Probably if we joined the US, it would eventually end up a democrat state, but when the negotiations were going through congress they would see the huge history of voting right wing and assume it was a red state. Plus the obvious proximity and similarities to red states. (landlocked, oil and gas)

[GP_Matt]

That sounds like a great plan then. Bring in Puerto Rico to balance with Alberta then we vote Democrat and the Tea Party stays away from power for a decade.

[llwhiteoutll]

Evman and 4x4, which gun laws are you referring to? With the varying state laws, some that are as or more restrictive than Canada's, you can't make a blanket statement that you're “against US gun laws”.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

Here's an article that discusses Alberta secession to the US:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/st...ml?id=10900926

The article doesn't put much weight into cultural impacts and at first glance, I question the accuracy of some of the figures given in the article.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Only a few. I'm sick as hell and grumpy .

First off any Canadian who is in favour of this should be charged with treason and deported to the US. This is Canada if you want to live in the States then ####ing pack your bags and go. This is our land not theirs .


Edit: In reflextion some of the things I said are a little strong. They do how ever, get the point across wiithout glossing over the issue and strongly convey the emotions I feel on the subject.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Posts like these are just rude.

If you don't like people criticizing everything that you say then the internet in general is a poor place to expect politeness and apathy.

[calgaryred]

I like the US love Canada I'd rather stay Canadian and have the US and Canada make their own dollar together, that would be one powerful dollar.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

Can anyone confirm that every Albertan pays roughly $6,000 more into the federal budget then we receive back?

That's false.

Transfer payments are based on federal revenue like income taxes, business taxes, and GST. This money is all pooled, and then redistributed back to the provinces based on a formula that compares average per capita revenue of provinces to average tax rates.

So a high-income person in New Brunswick pays more into the federal coffers than a low-income Albertan. Alberta has been a net payer into the program simply because there are more people with high incomes in this province than in other provinces.

This notion that the every Albertan puts X amount more into federal coffers than their counterparts in other provinces, or that Alberta writes cheques to other provinces, is demagoguery and nonsense.

And I find it curious that the people who froth and bluster about equalization payments the loudest never say a peep about the huge transfer of revenues in Alberta from the cities to the rural parts of the province. Calgary generates far more revenue than it receives in provincial funding, and some rural parts of the province barely generate enough revenue to pave their roads, let alone build hospitals and schools. I understand the merits of a model that ensures people across the province have equal access to government services. But surely if it's a good policy for Alberta, then it's a good policy for Canada.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by V

If you're earnestly searching for what would make us all happier, the quickest and most efficient answer would be to stop posting altogether.

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

If you don't like people criticizing everything that you say then the internet in general is a poor place to expect politeness and apathy.

Criticizing is one thing... purposely doing it in rude and nasty way is another. Sometimes I wonder if this place is populated by 12 year olds.

Fine... I'm sick and tired of the drive by insults and the nastiness exhibited by some members here. I'm sick and tired of the mods allowing this behaviour to continue by the same members over and over again. I'm sick and tired of people applauding (thanking) other people for such behaviour.

You guys win. You just drove out another member. I'm not the first and I doubt I'll be the last.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Maybe I am stupid, and I am definitely not a lawyer from the 1800s, but how would Alberta leaving the confederation impact the treaties that are in place with the First Nations?

Let's say Alberta did leave, and the treaties were effectively cancelled. Wouldn't this put legal ownership back fully into the hands of First Nations? Furthermore, would not these communities be less willing to renegotiate any sort of deal now knowing what is there and how valuable it is? Thirdly, their unwillingness to negotiate might not matter at all because what is there ability to defend their property? There is no military force inside of the First Nations.

So would this not leave the area immediately vulnerable to military action of various outside forces looking to control the resource and re-establish control? Sounds to me like it would be a short invasion by the US or Chinese (both of whom are heavily invested in the oil patch) which would cripple the First Nations.

Second, what would happen to all of the companies and foreign governments who have already invested in these projects and have operations throughout the province?

Actually doing something like this would create a huge clusterfata would it not?