[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Split98]

PMM was exactly what I wanted to read, thank you.

A thought that has come up (sorry if I missed pages talking about this) but his lack of production this year will put him on waivers, we know that.

Now, do we claim him? There's no question he has potential, but needs character work to push through challenges that will arise regularly in his career.

So would bringing him back to Calgary do anything to help that? It could be fruitless, but I could also see a 'come back and let's get back to work' being a boon for his confidence in what we believe in for him. Maybe there just isn't room, especially by next year, but would be cool to see him given another shot. Well, mainly... not be a top 9 in Vancouver.

Gonna miss that guy.

[JiriHrdina]

^Are you suggesting bringing him back already?

[GioforPM]

Sorry Split but that won't gonna happen. Sven won't play again here unless it's well into his NHL career, likely with a change in coach. Calgary won't pick him up on waivers, both because they won't want to, and because if he's worth picking up, there will be plenty of teams ahead of them who will do it.

[CalgaryFan1988]

If anyone is curious, Baertschi was selected as the 3rd shooter in the shootout, but failed to score.

[Gaudfather]

I have a feeling that a month or two into next year's season with Bennett on board most of us will be saying Sven who!

[Gaudfather]

Double post

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Split98

A thought that has come up (sorry if I missed pages talking about this) but his lack of production this year will put him on waivers, we know that.

Now, do we claim him? There's no question he has potential, but needs character work to push through challenges that will arise regularly in his career.

So would bringing him back to Calgary do anything to help that? .

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Split98

PMM was exactly what I wanted to read, thank you.

A thought that has come up (sorry if I missed pages talking about this) but his lack of production this year will put him on waivers, we know that.

Now, do we claim him? There's no question he has potential, but needs character work to push through challenges that will arise regularly in his career.

So would bringing him back to Calgary do anything to help that? It could be fruitless, but I could also see a 'come back and let's get back to work' being a boon for his confidence in what we believe in for him. Maybe there just isn't room, especially by next year, but would be cool to see him given another shot. Well, mainly... not be a top 9 in Vancouver.

Gonna miss that guy.

It would be kind of funny for that to happen, but doubtful.

Van is going to give him a long rope. I think he will be on the team for at least 3 months. If things aren't clicking for him at all, the Nucks would try and trade him before trying to push him through waivers. If there is no team interested, then I guess they will expose him to waivers. If he does that poorly, he may just pass anyways. However, odds are that one of the bottom teams next year would put in a claim on him - Phoenix, Buffalo.. ahem.. Edmonton! Somebody will put in a claim on him just to see him for free. There is always a GM out there that will throw the dice on an under-performing prospect with that much potential out of junior. Heck, Islanders even tried Shremp.

Baertschi's time is up in Calgary. He was traded away, so it would be extremely doubtful Calgary would trade back for him given his 'refusal to re-sign' threat. Calgary most likely wouldn't be low enough on the waiver wire to beat out some potential interested teams. On top of this, I think it would become more of a distraction than anything else.

Of course, Sven may indeed start turning his game around and be taking enough steps forward that Vancouver is happy with him.

[Tinordi]

The most acute condition of former Flames syndrome I've seen in a while. Seek a medical professional.

[FireItUp]

I could care less about trading Sven...our actual first round pick was taking in the 4th round at 104th overall in the same draft year as Sven (2011).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/3/3/when...sven-baertschi

Well, that's one way to interpret things.

PMM was dead on with what I saw, and it has to keep coming back to what Baertschi did and did not do in the AHL. The Flamesnation piece ignores that crucial bit entirely.

Also, I have often felt that Baertschi never looked the same following some pretty serious injuries in 2012/13(?). He has not looked as fast, nor as strong on his skates, and he seems to lack patience with the puck now where he once did not.

[Caged Great]

^ I think in time, people will look back on Sven as being basically Daniel Tkaczuk 2.0.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/3/3/when...sven-baertschi

This whole article is a pretty good example of a certain attitude that bugs me when some people are talking about Baertchi, the assumption that there MUST be someone to blame.

Here's a quote from the article.

Where a public ass kicking may work for one player, a more nurturing tone may be needed for another.

This is obvious, but misses the big picture. The Flames are trying to foster an environment of competition, where prospects are told the spots are handed out on merit. While obviously it's never going to be quite as simple as that (team needs trumps merit), it's far from "a lie" either. Looking at the way most of our prospects are developing our system seems to be working.

If Baertchi needed nurturing, tough luck. You can't put pressure on other players to compete and then nurture one guy.

It's just missmatch of needs, and that's nobody's fault. Not even the scouts. Baertchi was drafted before our current development system had really formed, and before the team moved to the system it now plays.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

^ I think in time, people will look back on Sven as being basically Daniel Tkaczuk 2.0.

Hmm I might be wrong here, but Tkaczuk's career was completely derailed by injuries (concussions) if I remember correctly.

Even though Sven has had his share I doubt it is to that extent.

I don't think they are good comparables. Sven, for all his talent, appears to lack an extra gear.

Mind you, Switzerland is a small hockey nation compared to the big 6, and Sven was massively hyped there. He must have been ways ahead of the other kids wherever he played and was used to be the star.
I think coming to the NHL, scoring 3 goals, and then realising that it wasn't going to be that easy just crushed him. Speculation, speculation.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Well, that's one way to interpret things.

PMM was dead on with what I saw, and it has to keep coming back to what Baertschi did and did not do in the AHL. The Flamesnation piece ignores that crucial bit entirely.

Also, I have often felt that Baertschi never looked the same following some pretty serious injuries in 2012/13(?). He has not looked as fast, nor as strong on his skates, and he seems to lack patience with the puck now where he once did not.

I could not get over this season how easily he was muscled off the puck. Even a smaller player like Gadreau puts up a decent fight in the corners and you could just see that Johnny has that added dimension of speed and shiftiness to his game that Sven doesn't appear to have at the NHL level. Flames fans have to ask if trading him is a loss at all to this franchise as who's spot on the LW was he going to take next year? Was he going to beat out Poirier, Ferland, Raymond, or Bouma? Say what you want about Raymond but it's hard to imagine Baertschi outplaying him next season given what we saw of him in the AHL and NHL.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

Hmm I might be wrong here, but Tkaczuk's career was completely derailed by injuries (concussions) if I remember correctly.

Even though Sven has had his share I doubt it is to that extent.

I don't think they are good comparables. Sven, for all his talent, appears to lack an extra gear.

.

I would compare him more to Fata at this point. They each have one or two skills that will wow you, but lack too many other tools to put it all together. Schremp is another player that I compared Baertschi to before (like last year) and I think it still applies. They have some big league skill, but if either one was ever to make it in the NHL, it is going to be on their terms.

[Resolute 14]

Maybe I was seeing things differently, but I thought he was stronger on the puck this year than he was the last two. Still not great, mind you, but improved. That said, I never saw his play in the AHL, so that was based only on a few games he played at the Dome.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

I've stayed out of this thread to mull over the whole situation for a bit. So for what it's worth, here's just another perspective.

I had spoken to Sven on several occasions in Abby. He was always a polite, and most of all, an honest kid. He was always careful with his words, but his body language spoke volumes of how he really felt.

The very first Heat practice after Burke's public chastising of Baertschi, I went there to talk to him. For whatever reasons, I never expected to talk to him because I was told he was rather gloomy that day. After practice, he agreed to chat. I asked him the most important question about how he felt after Burke's comments. It was apparent he was expecting that question and his response was "well...*sigh*... I just... *sigh* I don't know, I *sigh*..." combined with a perplexed and upset visage. Then he continued to talk about doing what they asked of him, blah blah blah, which is all fine and well, but he never did in the long run.

Ward always spoke of wanting to see more from Sven. He always wanted to see more. Sven would put up a couple of assists in a game, the media would ask Ward what he thought of his game and he'd respond, "okay, just okay." That's Sven's AHL career in a nutshell. He put up points occasionally, but most nights he was just "okay," and on nights when he wasn't "okay," he was invisible. That's not going to earn anyone a call up, and it didn't.

I get the feeling Baertschi was never criticized throughout his entire career. That's why Burke's comments carried so much weight and sent Sven crashing to the ground. I don't know all the behind the scenes stuff and don't pretend to, but Sven just didn't seem the same after that.

I'm happy for him that he's getting a fresh start because lord knows he needs it. But he's not going to get very far as an athlete with his glass dome of confidence, especially in Vancouver where fans will turn on you with the drop of a dime, then worship you five times a day the next week (see: Shawn Matthias, Zach Kassian and currently, Eddie Lack).

I'm not going to get into whether or not he got a fair shake in Calgary and whether or not management was out to get him. All I'll say is that Sven didn't force their hand in any way. He was lackluster in the AHL, which, unfortunately for him, is the stage he had to prove himself on.

EDIT - I should add, before I get jumped on, that I didn't like what Burke did. That should have been a private discussion between Baertschi and his bosses. It was a tragic misstep in Baertschi's development process, but it happened and I feel like it was up to Sven to rise above that criticism, but I just don't think he was mentally able to do it.

This reminds me of when I heard Scotty Bowman talk at a Mike Babcock event in Saskatoon 5 years ago. He discussed trading for Mike Foligno to Buffalo, from Detroit.

Scotty said after they sat Mike down and told him what he did right and what he did wrong, and that they want him to do this, and to play this way, Mike just sat back and basically said, "this is good, you're the first person to tell me that I'm not great."

That was in the 80's so I can only imagine how easy it is to review criticism these days.

Adversity comes to everyone, its how we deal with it that defines what we become. It seems as though Sven doesn't have the same approach. Mike Foligno was drafted higher than Yzerman 4 years prior. He had an approach to redefining his game, and ego, that let him have a long career in the league. It seems as though Sven doesn't quite seem to have the same approach. But who knows, maybe he'll mature.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by FireItUp

I could care less about trading Sven...our actual first round pick was taking in the 4th round at 104th overall in the same draft year as Sven (2011).

Good point, hopefully our poor decisions in the future balance out like this one...

Also, how much less could you care?

[FireItUp]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

Good point, hopefully our poor decisions in the future balance out like this one...

Also, how much less could you care?

As less as trading him for a second rounder in a deep draft of course.