[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I find it funny that there is a lot more sad people about Sven moving than Glencross. I was the opposite, I was sad to see Glencross leave and didn't mind Sven going.

Well I think the issue is Glencross was seen as a 32 year old olaying in a deep position on the Flames and it is natural that he move on rather than sign him for a multi year big money deal. Sven was still looked at as a piece that was going to be part of the future. The fact he went to the Nucks I think adds to that sadness/anger

[shermanator]

I think we need to put a filter in on the term RGI. Kind of like ############ and #### and ####

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Well I think the issue is Glencross was seen as a 32 year old olaying in a deep position on the Flames and it is natural that he move on rather than sign him for a multi year big money deal. Sven was still looked at as a piece that was going to be part of the future. The fact he went to the Nucks I think adds to that sadness/anger

I think moving on from Sven benefits the Flames' management, the Flames' fans, and Sven himself. He gets a fresh start on a team that has some familiar faces for him already, and all Flames' fans (including myself) can finally move on from him and start looking forward to the next draft. Now that we have a good LW prospect traded away, this makes the Flames able to explore all positions to pick from.

[MelBridgeman]

Sven may have been a 1st rounder 4 years ago, but he sure hasn't played like one.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

finally move on from him.

...not if he he pots 20+ goals and 30+ assists on a possession team with coaching that helps him succeed... that happens to be our most hated rival.

[Rhettzky]

I don't mind this trade, a second round pick this year should have solid value. My question would be, at what point would this trade be considered a loss for us?

If Sven turns into a;
-Just a regular NHLer?
-0-20 point per season guy?
-20-40 point per season guy?
-40-60 point per season guy?
-A lower point player but figures out the D side of the game?
-or you'll judge it based on how we use the 2nd rounder.

[getbak]

I don't follow the Canucks' prospects, so I looked up to see what their LW depth chart looks like. Based on the recent moves they've made, recent draft picks, and the current rosters in Vancouver and Utica, it looks like Sven will certainly have a chance to crack the lineup (players' ages as of the start of next season in parentheses)...

Daniel Sedin (35) : 1041 GP : 321 G - 538 A - 859 P -- Signed through 2018
Chris Higgins (32) : 662 GP : 157 G - 163 A - 320 P -- Signed through 2017
Brandon McMillan (25) : 166 GP : 14 G - 21 A - 35 P -- RFA this summer
Ronalds Kenins (24) : 14 GP : 3 G - 7 A - 10 P -- RFA this summer

Sven Baertschi (23) : 66 GP : 8 G - 20 A - 28 P -- RFA this summer

Mike Zalewski (23) : 2 GP : 0 G - 1 A - 1 P -- RFA this summer
Brandon DeFazio (27) : 2 GP : 0 G - 0 A - 0 P -- RFA this summer
Hunter Shinkaruk (20) : No NHL games // AHL : 55 GP : 7 G - 11 A - 18 P -- Two more years before waivers required
Ludwig Blomstrand (22) : No NHL games, only 15 total AHL games (2 total points). In the ECHL all season -- One season remaining on ELC



Like I said, I don't follow their prospects, so there may be some players missing or players who play LW who are listed as centres or RWs that I didn't get.

It's definitely a shallower depth chart than being behind: Gaudreau, Bouma, Byron, Bollig, and Ferland, plus guys like Hudler and Raymond who have been playing on the right side, but are also LWs. Then, there are guys like Klimchuk and Carroll who will likely be making the jump to the AHL next year, along with the other wingers currently in Adirondack. It's also possible that they're looking at putting Bennett on the wing next season to ease him into the NHL, which is one more player pushing himself in front of Sven on the depth chart.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

...not if he he pots 20+ goals and 30+ assists on a possession team with coaching that helps him succeed... that happens to be our most hated rival.

Then we'd be fine with it because the player we pick with that second rounder goes on and gets 30+ goals and 40+ assists for us in the future.

I think at this point there is a better chance of the second rounder becoming a legit NHL'er than Sven. Sven couldn't crack the Flames lineup and really hasn't shown that he was a first round pick or even a second rounder. He looks like a bust at this point and we at least got a high pick for him.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

...not if he he pots 20+ goals and 30+ assists on a possession team with coaching that helps him succeed... that happens to be our most hated rival.

I see maybe a 25% chance of this occurring.

Not to say that a 2nd round pick is anything but a gamble, but it's less crazy than getting mad about things outside your control.

[playmaker]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Sven may have been a 1st rounder 4 years ago, but he sure hasn't played like one.

1st rounder in a weak draft class (RNH, Landeskog and Huberdeau in top 3).
The range of 10-15 included picks such as Duncan Siemens or Jamie Oleksiak - both likely developing into bottom pairing dmen

I think it's safe to say that in a strong draft year such as 2013 Sven would be drafted where Klichmuk was (at best)

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Maybe he can be the next Anson Carter or Taylor Pyatt? That's probably best case scenario for Sven at this point. Be apart of someone else's success by accumulating 2nd assists and a few tap ins every year. Not really understanding why people think this is going to bite us in the butt. It's pretty obvious at this point, he'll never be a true difference maker. He's small, soft and not fast (not slow either, maybe average at best). Opposite to the type of players BT is trying to bring in anyway.

[MacFlame]

The trade is not what really bothers me, but more so the way the coaching staff handled him throughout his development in the organization. Sitting him in favour of guys that truly didn't deserve to be played either (Jackman, Glencross at certain points, Raymond at certain points, Setogouchi, etc.) likely stuck with him.

The fact that it seemed to weigh on him to the point where he requested a trade is certainly an unfavourable trait of his, but I do think the coaching staff could/should have handled him differently....and this is coming from a guy that believes Hartley has done a superb job.

Having said that, it may have also been a situation where bringing Sven to the NHL too early created a sense, from Sven's perspective, that he didn't need any seasoning in the AHL, I'm not sure. Regardless of the reason, Sven clearly lost the swagger that he had very early in his NHL career.

Hartley et al have done great work with the majority of the prospects, but not so much with Sven in my opinion.

[Poe969]

I disagree. I think they've treated the prospects the same and held them all accountable. Sven didn't put in the work or the effort to show he deserved a shot. It's easy to say we should have played him over guys like Seto or Jackman now but at the time, they were old players not producing but have in the past and Sven was a young player not producing who really didn't in the past. I think treating him different would have been a mistake and they did the right thing. As much as it sucks, Sven just wasn't good.

[debil]

Someone should be fired for this. bartschi is second 1st round pick leaving this organization. this is huge mismanagement of young prospects. bartschi is still first round talent that was really not given enough chances.

[CalgaryFan1988]

After having a night to sleep on it, i'm actually happy he went to the Canucks.

He wanted out, because of the way he was handled, so we can't blame Treliving for getting what he could. Baertschi wasn't going to succeed here, if he ever has a chance at succeeding it would be with the Canucks. They are weak in LW depth, and play more of Baertschi's style.

If he doesn't succeed on the Canucks, then he never would have succeeded anywhere IMO, at least now we'll find out.

I was more infatuated with his potential, not the player, that potential wasn't panning out here. Does seem like a good kid though (felt bad for changing jersey numbers for the fans that bought his jersey, etc).

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by debil

Someone should be fired for this. bartschi is second 1st round pick leaving this organization. this is huge mismanagement of young prospects. bartschi is still first round talent that was really not given enough chances.

Feaster and Weisbrod have already been fired. Burke and Treliving inherited their problem and now they fixed it.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I disagree. I think they've treated the prospects the same and held them all accountable. Sven didn't put in the work or the effort to show he deserved a shot. It's easy to say we should have played him over guys like Seto or Jackman now but at the time, they were old players not producing but have in the past and Sven was a young player not producing who really didn't in the past. I think treating him different would have been a mistake and they did the right thing. As much as it sucks, Sven just wasn't good.

I think this where I disagree. I'm not so sure that they have. At least from the outside, it seemed like the leash was shorter for Sven. Gaudreau has a had rough couple of weeks, but has remained on the top line (as he should!), and I don't think Sven received the same treatment. I also think that when Colborne came in he received the more favourable ice time/line combinations, even though, at least early on, he was making similar mistakes.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by debil

Someone should be fired for this. bartschi is second 1st round pick leaving this organization. this is huge mismanagement of young prospects. bartschi is still first round talent that was really not given enough chances.

They were, Feaster was fired last year.

[Poe969]

I think someone was fired for this. Feaster picked Sven didn't he? I don't think we should have picked him to begin with anyway but it was a pretty weak draft as pointed out. It doesn't matter where he was picked because he just wasn't good enough. Saying he was a first round pick that was mismanaged is about as valid as saying he was outworked by players who were picked way lower than him. If no prospects did well in our system then there would be an issue but others passed him because he just wasn't good enough and didn't put in the work.

[Vinny01]

Are Shark fans still pissed about trading Kipper for a 2nd when the second turned into Vlassic?

If the flames get good value for the 2nd then it could be a win-win trade just like Kipper