[Trade] Glencross to Washington for a 2015 2nd and 2015 3rd round pick (WSH) (Archive)

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Bar-Down

It would be nice if the Flames could get either a 1st rounder or a top D prospect.

Something like Glencross + Beartschi for Griffin Reinhart…?

Fair?

Sureloss posted on the last page that the Isles intend to stand pat heading into the deadline. Rightfully so too. they're in a great spot on both sides of the developmental sword. They have a glut of good prospects they can take their time easing into the NHL while being one of the top teams in the league.

[saillias]

Yeah Garth Snow probably has PTSD after his last trade deadline.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Except that holding on to him (if the offers aren't good enough) to help with a playoff push isn't "losing him for nothing". It's keeping him for the last few months for a purpose.

If they don't trade him and he walks (which he will/would), then yes, they lost him for nothing.

Playoff push or not, losing Cammy and Glencross in consecutive seasons with no assets in return isn't something a rebuilding team should be doing. I don't see Glencross as a player that will make or break this team's playoff hopes anyway, but that's just imo.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

If they don't trade him and he walks (which he will/would), then yes, they lost him for nothing.

Playoff push or not, losing Cammy and Glencross in consecutive seasons with no assets in return isn't something a rebuilding team should be doing. I don't see Glencross as a player that will make or break this team's playoff hopes anyway, but that's just imo.

I agree with this sentiment. As long as the Flames management team can live with the return, we're going to have to stomach it if it isn't the greatest thing we've ever seen.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

If they don't trade him and he walks (which he will/would), then yes, they lost him for nothing.

Playoff push or not, losing Cammy and Glencross in consecutive seasons with no assets in return isn't something a rebuilding team should be doing. I don't see Glencross as a player that will make or break this team's playoff hopes anyway, but that's just imo.

I don't see a 2nd (Glencross) and a 3rd (Cammy) as make or break for our rebuild, either. It's arguable that Glencross is more helpful to our playoff hopes than a 2nd is to our rebuild (though I'd argue it's close).

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

I don't see a 2nd (Glencross) and a 3rd (Cammy) as make or break for our rebuild, either. It's arguable that Glencross is more helpful to our playoff hopes than a 2nd is to our rebuild (though I'd argue it's close).

And didn't Burke say that he couldn't even get a 3rd? In which case I'm fine with how it went down.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

If they don't trade him and he walks (which he will/would), then yes, they lost him for nothing.

Playoff push or not, losing Cammy and Glencross in consecutive seasons with no assets in return isn't something a rebuilding team should be doing. I don't see Glencross as a player that will make or break this team's playoff hopes anyway, but that's just imo.

Not make or break, but he can certainly help, which is why a team pushing for or potentially contending in the playoffs would want to add him as a rental in the first place.

If the best offer is a 4th - 7th round pick I'd rather have his experience contributing to a playoff push down the stretch, and I think that's a long way from saying we got "nothing" from electing to keep him over dealing him for the sake of it if the offers aren't right.

For the record, I'd rather see him moved if the return is right... but if it's not, I think it's a very different situation vs. last year and there is a benefit to his staying the last six weeks of the season.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

I don't see a 2nd (Glencross) and a 3rd (Cammy) as make or break for our rebuild, either.

It's arguable that Glencross is more helpful to our playoff hopes than a 2nd is to our rebuild (though I'd argue it's close).

I believe that is the Flames old mind set....

Flames need to follow their long term plan.... Key is assets and development. (i.e. shop him, then trade him before or by the trade deadline if he won't resign).

With Cammy, I believe the problem was there was not allot of interest.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flambers

I believe that is the Flames old mind set....

Flames need to follow their long term plan.... Key is assets and development. (i.e. shop him, then trade him before or by the trade deadline if he won't resign).

With Cammy, I believe the problem was there was not allot of interest.

I think a Cammaleri is in fact a bit less tradeable at the deadline than a Glencross. Obviously a better scorer, but he needs top line minutes and little defensive responsibility. I imagine most teams looking to add at the deadline were already set on their top line. Glencross can play pretty much on any line and contribute.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

I don't see a 2nd (Glencross) and a 3rd (Cammy) as make or break for our rebuild, either. It's arguable that Glencross is more helpful to our playoff hopes than a 2nd is to our rebuild (though I'd argue it's close).

It probably doesn't make or break the rebuild but I think people brush off later picks around here quite a bit. Bouma, Brodie, and Gaudreau were 3rd and 4th round picks. Obviously this isnt going to happen every time but the more picks we do make the more likely we will hit on some of them. You can definitely land quality players in later rounds.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

It probably doesn't make or break the rebuild but I think people brush off later picks around here quite a bit. Bouma, Brodie, and Gaudreau were 3rd and 4th round picks. Obviously this isnt going to happen every time but the more picks we do make the more likely we will hit on some of them. You can definitely land quality players in later rounds.

Edmonton 3rd round picks = crap.

Calgary 3rd round picks = Gold, Jerry, gold!

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Hackey

It probably doesn't make or break the rebuild but I think people brush off later picks around here quite a bit. Bouma, Brodie, and Gaudreau were 3rd and 4th round picks. Obviously this isnt going to happen every time but the more picks we do make the more likely we will hit on some of them. You can definitely land quality players in later rounds.

Yeah, and the list of players we selected in rounds 3-5 in the years previous to the Gaudreau draft include such luminaries as:

Joey Leach
John Ramage
Ryan Howse
Henrik Bjorklund
Spencer Bennett
Nick Larson
John Negrin
Aaron Marvin
Hugo Carpentier
Juuso Puustinen
Gord Baldwin
Dan Ryder
JD Watt
Kevin Lalande
Matt Keetley

I don't think they're undervalued at all. They're magic beans. Some grow into giant beanstalks, but most don't.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

I don't see a 2nd (Glencross) and a 3rd (Cammy) as make or break for our rebuild, either. It's arguable that Glencross is more helpful to our playoff hopes than a 2nd is to our rebuild (though I'd argue it's close).

I never said the picks would be make or break for the rebuild, but at least it's something. You could use those picks in a trade if you want, you could draft players that may help you in 2,3,4 years...however you use them at least they are assets. I'd definitely rather have a 2nd round pick than watch Glencross walk away in July and have nothing.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Yeah, and the list of players we selected in rounds 3-5 in the years previous


I don't think they're undervalued at all. They're magic beans. Some grow into giant beanstalks, but most don't.

Then the next 3 years including 2011 draft.....

2nd
2011 - Granlund / Wotherspoon
2012 - Sieloff
2014 - Macdonald / Smith

3rd
2012 - Gillies
2013 - Kanzig
2014 - Hickey

4th
2011 - Gaudreau
2012 - Kulak

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

If the best offer is a 4th - 7th round pick I'd rather have his experience contributing to a playoff push down the stretch, and I think that's a long way from saying we got "nothing" from electing to keep him over dealing him for the sake of it if the offers aren't right.

Fair enough, I get that. I would hope that the offers are better than a 4th rounder, but I still would rather see him moved considering where this organization is at today.

[Five-hole]

Well we weren't talking about 2nd rounders, but regardless:

Originally Posted by flambers

Then the next 3 years including 2011 draft.....

2nd
2011 - Granlund - Yet to carve out a permanent spot, looks promising
2011 - Wotherspoon - Still in AHL, looks promising
2012 - Sieloff - Unlucky, but a longshot to make the NHL at this point
2014 - Macdonald / Smith - Who knows

3rd
2012 - Gillies - Long way off yet, looks promising
2013 - Kanzig - Real long shot to play in the NHL
2014 - Hickey - Who knows

4th
2011 - Gaudreau - Home run
2012 - Kulak - Jury way out, has played ECHL all year

Outside of Gaudreau, we would be very lucky if any of these players turn out to be as good as Glencross is now, let alone what Glencross has been over the better part of the last decade.

As "undervalued" as some are claiming late round picks to be, what are truly undervalued around here are bona fide NHL players like Glencross and Stajan. As I've noted before, everyone loves (for example) Bill Arnold but he's highly unlikely to ever be as good as Stajan is right now.

[Jason14h]

Just as people think the owners want to spend real $$ to 'buy' draft picks for eating contracts, they also don't think the owners care about playoff revenue.

The long term success of this team with a .80 cent CDN $ will be a lot brighter with 3 home games and the revenue it brings then a 3rd rounder.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Well we weren't talking about 2nd rounders, but regardless:



Outside of Gaudreau, we would be very lucky if any of these players turn out to be as good as Glencross is now, let alone what Glencross has been over the better part of the last decade.

As "undervalued" as some are claiming late round picks to be, what are truly undervalued around here are bona fide NHL players like Glencross and Stajan. As I've noted before, everyone loves (for example) Bill Arnold but he's highly unlikely to ever be as good as Stajan is right now.

True, but are any of these players going to better than Glencross will be form this point forward? That's the question. I say yes.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Yeah, and the list of players we selected in rounds 3-5 in the years previous to the Gaudreau draft include such luminaries as:

Joey Leach
John Ramage
Ryan Howse
Henrik Bjorklund
Spencer Bennett
Nick Larson
John Negrin
Aaron Marvin
Hugo Carpentier
Juuso Puustinen
Gord Baldwin
Dan Ryder
JD Watt
Kevin Lalande
Matt Keetley

I don't think they're undervalued at all. They're magic beans. Some grow into giant beanstalks, but most don't.

Ya well that list also includes:

Brodie
Bouma
Reinhart
Ferland
Arnold

I think most would agree our drafting has improved in recent years as well.

[Da_Chief]

^Reinhart/ferland/Arnold have not proven anything yet. Potential to do something but we're running out of spots up front.

Brodie, Bouma, Gaudreau, Granlund, Jooris and Gio are our late round/UFA prospect success right now.