[Trade] Glencross to Washington for a 2015 2nd and 2015 3rd round pick (WSH) (Archive)

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

"Home discount" aside, pretty sure Glencross is from Sask.

My understanding was that he is from and lived in / around Kindersley, SK until he was a young kid, something like 8 or 10 then moved and played the majority of his hockey / upbringing in eastern Alberta, Provost area. I would suspect he considers the Flames as close to a "hometown" as a guy from the prairies can get, for whatever it's worth.

I do think he took a 'discount' and I as a fan appreciate that as that type of leadership can help a team sign key guys... but recognize that is worth essentially zero to him.

Originally Posted by dino7c

force a guy that loves the city and the team to move on for a 2nd or 3rd round pick when the Flames are in a playoffs spot...I just don't see it

you guys can talk about it for another 2 weeks but I doubt it happens. I also think he makes a bigger impact than most on here do. One of the only wingers we have that has a little sand paper in his game.

Disagree he has sand paper in his game. I think he USED to play tougher, hit more, whatever. But if you watch him now, he is much more timid, probably a result of the way the game seems to be changing and his injuries. I wish he had this part of his game back as he seems pretty docile. For example or comparison's sake, look at how a guy like Bouma brings the body every single game and every single shift. Not even close.

Glencross to me, just isn't a part of this team's future. He probably is more so than, say, Stajan though. But given the contract status, the type of team Calgary is and looks to be trying to become, he just doesn't seem to have the same work ethic and mentality as the rest of the team. Doesn't seem to be a logical fit here. Some games there are spurts of very good things but just not consistent enough for me. I do however appreciate how hard he has been backchecking this season. He does have good defensive awareness as another posted pointed out. Just don't like what he brings to the table offensively anymore, and I think he will fetch a great deal closer to the deadline.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Left wing is our strongest position throughout the organization. GlenX thanks for your hard word and service but I'd be happy with a 2nd. And how can you be worried about grit when he's been soft for over a year. Also who will pick up his production.? What production he's been off since December. He needs a big pay day at this stage and he won't get it here. Go show your skills off on Anaheim or Pitts Glenny

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Heck id even take a project defencemen who just needs playing time. A Colborne type only on defence

[Red John]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Heck id even take a project defencemen who just needs playing time. A Colborne type only on defence

Those types don't really exist, and its because only 6 defensemen dress for a game opposed to 12 forwards, so each d-man sees more icetime and is therefore more integral to the eventual outcome of the game.

So most teams can't afford to have a "project" figure his game out back on the blueline, spending 20 minutes a night getting targeted and beat like a rented mule by other teams who will dump the puck into his corner all night long.

It's another reason why its more important to build a winning team around the blueline than forwards, and why the Flames are having success this season.

So no. You don't move Glencross for a "project D" even if that existed.

For a 1st, you have to move him but for anything less it's not worth sending the wrong message to a team that's played its balls off all season long to be in a playoff position.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Red John

Those types don't really exist, and its because only 6 defensemen dress for a game opposed to 12 forwards, so each d-man sees more icetime and is therefore more integral to the eventual outcome of the game.

So most teams can't afford to have a "project" figure his game out back on the blueline, spending 20 minutes a night getting targeted and beat like a rented mule by other teams who will dump the puck into his corner all night long.

It's another reason why its more important to build a winning team around the blueline than forwards, and why the Flames are having success this season.

So no. You don't move Glencross for a "project D" even if that existed.

For a 1st, you have to move him but for anything less it's not worth sending the wrong message to a team that's played its balls off all season long to be in a playoff position.

Absolutely they exist. Brodie's first NHL experiences epitomized this. I agree they're less common (we all know D tend to break into the NHL after forwards, so most D have a head start to their career) and I agree that they have more negative impact on the team, but they exist. MacT up north certainly approached J. Shultz as a project, and although yes E=NG and Jultz is not someone I'm crazy about taking onto our team at the moment, I would have jumped at the opportunity to sign him after his college years with full knowledge that he was a project.

[Mattman]

Here's a list of prospects I think could be packaged for Glencross or CG+ could fetch. Also checked nhlnumbers.com for these teams cap situations and I'm not saying we should exploit them...but we should.

RW and D prospects (notables too)

Boston Cap trouble
David Pastrnak- RH RW 6"0/ 18 yrs
Peter Cehlarik- LH LW 6"2/ 19 yrs
Joe Morrow- LH D 6"1/ 23 yrs
Matt Grzelcyk- LH D 5"9/ 20 yrs

Cap dumps
Gregory Campbell- $1,600,000 (2015 UFA)
Daniel Paille- $1,300,000 (2015 UFA)
Adam McQuiad- $1,566,667 (2015 UFA)
Matt Bartkowski- $1,250,000 (2015 UFA)


Pittsburgh ^Dido^
Kasperi Kapanen- RH RW 5"10/ 19 yrs
Beau Bennett- RH RW 6"2/ 24 yrs
Scott Harrington- LH D 6"2/ 22 yrs
Derrick Pouliot- LH D 5"10/ 21 yrs
Simon Despres- LH D 6"4 / 23 yrs
Brian Dumoulin- LH D 6"4/ 24 yrs

Cap dumps
Rob Scuderi- $3,375,000 (2017 UFA)
Pascal Dupis- $3,750,000 (2017 UFA) LTIR


Tampa Bay Good cap space
Braden Point- RH C 5"10/ 18 yrs (Born in Calgary)
Anthony DeAngelo- RH D 5"11/ 19 yrs
Dominik Masin- LH D 6"2/ 19 yrs
Slater Koekkoek- LH D 6"2/ 20 yrs
Ben Thomas- RH D 6"2/ 18 yrs (Born in Calgary)


Cap dumps
Mattias Ohlund- $3,607,143 (2016 UFA) LTIR

Winnipeg Probably won't be trading with the 'peggers

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Here's a list of prospects I think could be packaged for Glencross or CG+ could fetch. Also checked nhlnumbers.com for these teams cap situations and I'm not saying we should exploit them...but we should.

RW and D prospects (notables too)

Boston Cap trouble
David Pastrnak- RH RW 6"0/ 18 yrs
Peter Cehlarik- LH LW 6"2/ 19 yrs
Joe Morrow- LH D 6"1/ 23 yrs
Matt Grzelcyk- LH D 5"9/ 20 yrs

Cap dumps
Gregory Campbell- $1,600,000 (2015 UFA)
Daniel Paille- $1,300,000 (2015 UFA)
Adam McQuiad- $1,566,667 (2015 UFA)
Matt Bartkowski- $1,250,000 (2015 UFA)


Pittsburgh ^Dido^
Kasperi Kapanen- RH RW 5"10/ 19 yrs
Beau Bennett- RH RW 6"2/ 24 yrs
Scott Harrington- LH D 6"2/ 22 yrs
Derrick Pouliot- LH D 5"10/ 21 yrs
Simon Despres- LH D 6"4 / 23 yrs
Brian Dumoulin- LH D 6"4/ 24 yrs

Cap dumps
Rob Scuderi- $3,375,000 (2017 UFA)
Pascal Dupis- $3,750,000 (2017 UFA) LTIR


Tampa Bay Good cap space
Braden Point- RH C 5"10/ 18 yrs (Born in Calgary)
Anthony DeAngelo- RH D 5"11/ 19 yrs
Dominik Masin- LH D 6"2/ 19 yrs
Slater Koekkoek- LH D 6"2/ 20 yrs
Ben Thomas- RH D 6"2/ 18 yrs (Born in Calgary)


Cap dumps
Mattias Ohlund- $3,607,143 (2016 UFA) LTIR

Winnipeg Probably won't be trading with the 'peggers

No way any of those guys are being moved for any package around Glencross, especially the ones bolded and especially Pastrnak and Despres.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Here's a list of prospects I think could be packaged for Glencross or CG+ could fetch. Also checked nhlnumbers.com for these teams cap situations and I'm not saying we should exploit them...but we should.

RW and D prospects (notables too)

Boston Cap trouble
David Pastrnak- RH RW 6"0/ 18 yrs
Peter Cehlarik- LH LW 6"2/ 19 yrs
Joe Morrow- LH D 6"1/ 23 yrs
Matt Grzelcyk- LH D 5"9/ 20 yrs

Cap dumps
Gregory Campbell- $1,600,000 (2015 UFA)
Daniel Paille- $1,300,000 (2015 UFA)
Adam McQuiad- $1,566,667 (2015 UFA)
Matt Bartkowski- $1,250,000 (2015 UFA)


Pittsburgh ^Dido^
Kasperi Kapanen- RH RW 5"10/ 19 yrs
Beau Bennett- RH RW 6"2/ 24 yrs
Scott Harrington- LH D 6"2/ 22 yrs
Derrick Pouliot- LH D 5"10/ 21 yrs
Simon Despres- LH D 6"4 / 23 yrs
Brian Dumoulin- LH D 6"4/ 24 yrs

Cap dumps
Rob Scuderi- $3,375,000 (2017 UFA)
Pascal Dupis- $3,750,000 (2017 UFA) LTIR


Tampa Bay Good cap space
Braden Point- RH C 5"10/ 18 yrs (Born in Calgary)
Anthony DeAngelo- RH D 5"11/ 19 yrs
Dominik Masin- LH D 6"2/ 19 yrs
Slater Koekkoek- LH D 6"2/ 20 yrs
Ben Thomas- RH D 6"2/ 18 yrs (Born in Calgary)


Cap dumps
Mattias Ohlund- $3,607,143 (2016 UFA) LTIR

Winnipeg Probably won't be trading with the 'peggers

Don't Bogart those bath salts bro

[Murph]

Originally Posted by saillias

Glencross a warrior. Gimme a break. If he's a warrior, so is Mason Raymond

Please...

Amongst all our forwards he is second in blocked shots per game, a mere 0.01 blocks per game behind the mighty Lance Bouma, and he is 4th on the team in hits per game behind Bouma, Bollig and Colbourne. Add to this that he has reportedly been playing hurt for a large portion of the season and yeah, Glencross IS a warrior, and one of the toughest forwards we have.

As for your ridiculous comparison to Mason Raymond? Glencross has almost 3 times as many hits per game and 14 times as many blocked shots per game.

If it's not for the intangibles like toughness perhaps you could enlighten as to why the top teams in the league are calling about him?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by dino7c

really? I think it would be HUGE for the franchise, for now and in the future

Just look at the huge impact making the playoffs in 2012-13 had on the Senators.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Just look at the huge impact making the playoffs in 2012-13 had on the Senators.

Or we could look at a team like the 2003-04 Flames.

[CliffFletcher]

Acquiring Kipper turned around the fortunes of the Flames, not the warm afterglow of a playoff run.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Acquiring Kipper turned around the fortunes of the Flames, not the warm afterglow of a playoff run.

I think that's his point. There was no youth to develop though so it's a bad comparison.

The playoffs would be a valuable learning experience for Monahan, Gaudreau, Jooris, Brodie, etc plus any call ups. There were no comparables in 04 really. Phaneuf I guess?

[driveway]

I would take a similar approach with Glencross as Cammalleri last year. Particularly because we could make the playoffs, there's no serious harm in keeping Glencross. Especially if the return is a 2nd round pick. Getting a player with a 30% of playing in the NHL isn't all that attractive when we'd be sacrificing depth during a playoff run.

If someone offers a 1st or an A or A- prospect, do it. If not, keep him.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

I agree 100%.

Way too many fantasy GM's on this board, concerned to death over asset management. We get it, stay young, jettison the old, make room for the youth.

Problem is most picks do not pan out to being average NHL'ers. There are 3 first overall'ers sitting up North and none are great, nor the best of their draft class, the latest looks like he will have to battle to have another 5 years in the league.

So to throw actual team top scorers for 4th rounders (Better getting something than getting nothing!) in the hopes of finding the next TJ Brodie..... while your team actually needs goals as you try to get into the dance...insane.

Quit using the Oilers as an example for things. That team is an anomaly.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I think that's his point. There was no youth to develop though so it's a bad comparison.

The playoffs would be a valuable learning experience for Monahan, Gaudreau, Jooris, Brodie, etc plus any call ups. There were no comparables in 04 really. Phaneuf I guess?

Agreed. But even more than a learning experience, this is exactly what the players play for. They don't give a crap if the team is "rebuilding", they still want to win just the same.

To build a team, you just don't need a bunch of draft picks. You need a relationship of trust between players and management. Players need to know that if they sign in Calgary, the management and owners have their interests at heart. Becoming a seller while gunning for playoff positioning would really hurt that.

Detroit probably epitomizes this building strategy. Players don't sign in Detroit (and often at a lower salary) because of the weather or amenities the city offers. Despite not being in prime draft positions, they have built a reputation and a culture that lures players and makes them stay. The Oilers on the other hand, are on the opposite side of the spectrum. They always "load the chamber" with draft picks, but because of their reputation and lack of success on the ice, they can't supplement their team with personnel outside of the draft.

I admit, it is a difficult balance to maintain. I just don't see the value in trading Glencross being worth more than the potential negative effect it would have on the team at this point.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I think that's his point. There was no youth to develop though so it's a bad comparison.

The playoffs would be a valuable learning experience for Monahan, Gaudreau, Jooris, Brodie, etc plus any call ups. There were no comparables in 04 really. Phaneuf I guess?

Phaneuf didn't touch NHL ice in 2004, IIRC.

Young guys from that year would have been: Kobasew, Saprykin, Lombardi (eff you Hatcher), Commodore, Montadore (RIP). Probably missing a couple.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Acquiring Kipper turned around the fortunes of the Flames, not the warm afterglow of a playoff run.

That is a bit simplistic.

Overall though, lets not pretend that experience isn't valuable.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Phaneuf didn't touch NHL ice in 2004, IIRC.

Young guys from that year would have been: Kobasew, Saprykin, Lombardi (eff you Hatcher), Commodore, Montadore (RIP). Probably missing a couple.

No core pieces though was my point

[JohnnyTitan]

For those of us thinking the Flames need to deal from a position of strength/depth (forward) for a position of weakness (potential top-4 D-Man) -> I most certainly think we need to acquire a maturing prospect and NOT a draft pick. Even a 2nd round pick will NOT result in a serviceable top-4 in the next 4 years.

See the results of this debate here: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=143079

After looking at top "D" prospects in past draft years, I've come to the conclusion I'd be fine with shipping Glencross++ for a any D prospect better than Wotherspoon.