it's tiime to deal Ramo

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Since we are rebuilding... we are still rebuilding, right? Isn't getting even a 4th round draft pic for Ramo better than losing him to free agency and getting nothing?

Or does the playoff push trump the rebuild?

No it's not.
Playoff push helps the rebuild.
A rebuild doesn't equal a tear down.

[FlameZilla]

I don't see the point dealing Ramo just for the sake of it. Only if a team was willing to overpay, and at this point I doubt that happens. Could be wrong though; I would have never thought anyone would give up a 2nd rounder for Reto Berra.

[getbak]

If you trade Ramo, you have to replace him.

Adirondack went 0-1-2 when Ortio was in Calgary and they're barely hanging onto a playoff spot right now. Deciding to ride out the year with Carr and Thiessen will probably mean that Adirondack misses the playoffs, which is bad for the overall player development.

Trading Ramo means you either call up Ortio and need to find an AHL starter, or you keep Ortio in the AHL and acquire a new NHL backup.

In that situation, the best case scenario is likely that you get a 4th for Ramo and get a replacement for a 5th. So, you're downgrading your goaltending to move up 25-35 spots in the middle of the draft (where there's a good chance the guy you pick would have still been available at the lower spot).

[Fire]

Since Ramo has no trade value at the moment I think the question is mute.

[driveway]

^moot.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Fire

Since Ramo has no trade value at the moment I think the question is mute.

[MisterJoji]

Unless the return is phenomenal, which it won't be, I don't see the point. Ortio looked great, but that was 5 games and I'd rather him have a deep run in the playoffs in the AHL before his one way deal kicks in next year. Ramo has shown to be a solid 1B/backup goaltender for the last year and a half and is capable of being very solid for short stretches. I don't think it's a coincidence that Hiller regained his early season form, after riding the bench for 5+ games. He seems like a guy that starts to falter when the workload gets too high, and I'd rather have Ramo, who has proven more over vastly more GP than Ortio, being the guy giving Hiller nights off. Keep Hiller's consecutive starts < 5 unless he is playing out of his mind, and let Ramo play 1 or 2 games between Hiller's starts, more if he is also playing phenomenal. I think having a platoon situation in goal is a lot more stable than overplaying Hiller or running with a guy that has played 14 games at the NHL level.

[djsFlames]

It's not about getting value for Ramo (you won't), it's about getting Ortio on this roster for the betterment of the team down the stretch. What about that don't people understand?

I completely agree we need to find a way to get him up here. With the way Minnesota is going and having games in hand, if Hiller starts to slump again, I'd feel much better having Ortio be able to step in with his abilities between the pipes.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

it's about getting Ortio on this roster...What about that don't people understand?

The fact that we've got about five, maybe even more NHL prospects on the farm right now:

Wotherspoon
Baertschi
Poirier
Shore
Granlund
Kulak
Arnold
(Culkin..please get healthy)
Reinhart
Ferland
Sieloff

For their development these guys should make the AHL Playoffs and make a serious run at a championship. Ortio can get them there and get them very deep (deeper than he can get this Calgary Flames team). You're going to throw that away for... a late round draft pick?

Hiller can get the NHL Flames to the NHL playoffs, and whatever happens there happens. Even Ramo isn't half as bad as his last few showings. Ortio can come up next season when his replacement is ready to assume the mantle.

[djsFlames]

Flames > Baby Flames. Let's face it.

But I'm willing to put the issue aside at least until (/if) Hiller/Ramo show they can't do their part in getting us to the playoffs. We'll see how this month goes. But from what I've seen, Thiessen is a perfectly capable tender.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Flames > Baby Flames. Let's face it.

For development?

A big part of the Flames' future roster is over there. Glencross, Jones, Raymond, Wideman, Engelland, Smid none of these guys are likely part of any long term plan. This year is still part of a rebuild year.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

It's not about getting value for Ramo (you won't), it's about getting Ortio on this roster for the betterment of the team down the stretch. What about that don't people understand?

I completely agree we need to find a way to get him up here. With the way Minnesota is going and having games in hand, if Hiller starts to slump again, I'd feel much better having Ortio be able to step in with his abilities between the pipes.

Kind of a condescending remark. There is no guarantee it would be better to have Ortio here than Ramo. Ortio's sample size is way too small. Ramo has shown he can be very good (back to back shutouts) and don't forget Ortio was pulled his last game played. If Hiller starts to slump again and Ramo can't pick up the slack then you bring Ortio up, but both those guys have proven a hell of lot more at the NHL level than Ortio has.

[spuzzum]

Most of the consensus seems to mention that there is no need to tinker with the Flames goal tending whilst in the thick of a play off race. Ortio is still unproven at the NHL and playing every night in an AHL play off race and the play offs itself is important to his future development.

Unless the return is Bara "like" being an early 2nd or better, I'll take a pass.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

It's not about getting value for Ramo (you won't), it's about getting Ortio on this roster for the betterment of the team down the stretch. What about that don't people understand?

I completely agree we need to find a way to get him up here. With the way Minnesota is going and having games in hand, if Hiller starts to slump again, I'd feel much better having Ortio be able to step in with his abilities between the pipes.

Ortio is better off playing as a #1 in the AHL than a backup up here.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Ortio is better off playing as a #1 in the AHL than a backup up here.

NHL minutes are always better experience than AHL minutes, even if they are more sheltered, or less, and for all players who we're looking at to make the jump. I'm getting tired of that old complaint. It's complete ####.

Ortio has played plenty of AHL hockey over the last few seasons. Him being with the NHL team down a stretch in important games and playing the odd game is very valuable experience. Especially if he's 100% making the jump next season. There's no better experience preparing for the league you're to play in than being around THAT league.

It doesn't need to happen if Hiller picks up wins for us regularly but if the current duo start letting a bad goals every game again then the swap has to be made. Parent club needs take priority when the playoffs are involved. That's the whole point of everything, not Adirondack's playoffs. But, again, only if the situation becomes desperate. No need to pull Ortio out right now.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

NHL minutes are always better experience than AHL minutes, even if they are more sheltered, or less, and for all players who we're looking at to make the jump. I'm getting tired of that old complaint. It's .

Well no point discussing it since its that black and white. I'll ignore how most NHL teams manage their goalie prospects, ensuring playing time, and just take your word as absolute authority

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

NHL minutes are always better experience than AHL minutes, even if they are more sheltered, or less, and for all players who we're looking at to make the jump. I'm getting tired of that old complaint. It's complete ####.

Ortio has played plenty of AHL hockey over the last few seasons. Him being with the NHL team down a stretch in important games and playing the odd game is very valuable experience. Especially if he's 100% making the jump next season. There's no better experience preparing for the league you're to play in than being around THAT league.

It doesn't need to happen if Hiller picks up wins for us regularly but if the current duo start letting a bad goals every game again then the swap has to be made. Parent club needs take priority when the playoffs are involved. That's the whole point of everything, not Adirondack's playoffs. But, again, only if the situation becomes desperate. No need to pull Ortio out right now.

Disagree completely.

Ortio needs to be playing...period.

So unless he is called up and is the undisputed starter, which he most certainly wouldn't be to start with, he is much much better off staying in Addy. Not to mention that Addy will be making the playoffs and thats far from a certainty for Calgary, he needs to be "the guy" down there far more than maybe playing every 4th game here. This is how you develop players.

Now should a need arise to bring him up and he runs with the ball like he did previously, then fine...make him the starter and ride him out . For now however, he is way ahead of the game staying right where he is and bonding with his teammates as they embark on a hopefully long playoff run.

[icecube]

Ortio is just fine being down in the AHL. The more games played and the more shots he faced the better. That's the best thing for a goalies development at his age and experience level. Even one more year as a starter in the A wouldn't hurt him.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by icecube

Ortio is just fine being down in the AHL. The more games played and the more shots he faced the better. That's the best thing for a goalies development at his age and experience level. Even one more year as a starter in the A wouldn't hurt him.

Too bad we can't loan him to Buffalo. Guaranteed to see 35 pucks per game.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not to mention that Addy will be making the playoffs and thats far from a certainty for Calgary

Right now, Calgary is more securely in a playoff spot than Adirondack.


Ortio being in Calgary to backup Hiller probably doesn't make a difference towards the Flames making the playoffs. Ortio being in Adirondack as the starter will make a difference towards them making the playoffs.