[News] Mike Richards on waivers - CLEARS

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Do you think he has market value if Calgary then flipped him while retaining say $1.5 mill per season?

That makes his cap hit for the acquiring team $3.75 per.

At that price I think you might find some takers for him.

I see him as a guy we may be able to turn and flip for assets as well.

Richards is a 550k player making 10 times that for the next 5 years. Still valueless at 3.75

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Richards is a 550k player making 10 times that for the next 5 years. Still valueless at 3.75

Obviously a matter of opinion, but I don't think he's amongst the worst players in the NHL. I would value him at around $1.5m. He's a good 4th line center with 3rd line upside if he can get his game back, no matter how remote that possibility is.

[Badgers Nose]

Yeah, if Flames decide to show LA charity and take this contract they will either be laughing stocks or people will say LA got hosed. There is no grey here. One of these teams wins a lopsided trade.

If it happens I know what side I am on.

[Resolute 14]

Richards' contract is a boat anchor. That is fine today, but will not be fine in three years when we are really wanting that cap space.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Richards' contract is a boat anchor. That is fine today, but will not be fine in three years when we are really wanting that cap space.

Which is why Treliving would need extraordinary compensation to do it. No one said it would be an easy, slam-dunk decision with no risk. There is opportunity here though, especially if he can wrangle a few more savvy contracts like Brodie's to mitigate that risk going forward. Get Monahan and Gaudreau to sign reasonable bridge deals and this really isn't an issue.

[Badgers Nose]

We have a pile of star players that are going to want to get paid within the term of the Richards contract. Thoese are guys who will have earned those raises.

Then there is the idea of bringing in some deadline help in a couple of years when Flames are a legit contender. Having the space to do so could be the differnce between winning/losing a cup.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Is the buy out penalty less in three years than it is right now? If the Flames were to take on Richards, and then wish to dump him in three years when they need that cap space, what is the buyout penalty at that time? Does it differ?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by New Era

Is the buy out penalty less in three years than it is right now? If the Flames were to take on Richards, and then wish to dump him in three years when they need that cap space, what is the buyout penalty at that time? Does it differ?

Yes and no. it would still be the 2/3 of the remaining deal spread out over twice the term. So the dead cap space hit would be the same*, but the hit would last six less years if we bought him out in three years.

*Assuming the buyout hit is based on AAV. If it is actual dollars, I think it would be cheaper if the back end of Richards' deal calls for lower salary.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by New Era

Is the buy out penalty less in three years than it is right now? If the Flames were to take on Richards, and then wish to dump him in three years when they need that cap space, what is the buyout penalty at that time? Does it differ?

It'll be 2/3rds of the remaining money owed over twice the years left. Richard's contract was front loaded too, so buying out the remaining two or three years in two or three years time really wouldn't be a huge deal IMO. The amount per year isn't divided equally per year, it's a formula that I'm not quite sure of to be honest. At it's basic level though, it's 2/3 the remaining money owed multiplied over twice the years remaining on the deal.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

There is opportunity here though, especially if he can wrangle a few more savvy contracts like Brodie's to mitigate that risk going forward. Get Monahan and Gaudreau to sign reasonable bridge deals and this really isn't an issue.

...And Gio's final contract? Backlund's new contract this offseason? Bennett? Poirier? Ortio? Wotherspoon? Defensive depth to replace Wideman et al? Even guys like Bouma won't be making minumum dollar.

Crossing your fingers and hoping every player they have will take a huge paycut is nothing short of optimistic. And this after the Flames around six years of icing mediocre rosters of has-beens around Iginla and Kipprusoff just to say within the cap because those two made so much.

The idea of adding a guy like Toffoli excites me. But I don't think it's worth playing roulette with the future... you're effectively taking a 10-million cap hit for him. Even Crosby and Malkin don't make that much.

I'd rather have cap flexibility. More sensible opportunities will come.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yes and no. it would still be the 2/3 of the remaining deal spread out over twice the term. So the dead cap space hit would be the same*, but the hit would last six less years if we bought him out in three years.

*Assuming the buyout hit is based on AAV. If it is actual dollars, I think it would be cheaper if the back end of Richards' deal calls for lower salary.

it's actual dollars

[sureLoss]

Richards Buyout Scenarios Cap hit:

Calculations based on the same methodology described by capgeek's FAQ

edit: made a mistake in the calculations should be good now

No Buyout
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $5.75
2018-19 $5.75
2019-20 $5.75

Buyout in 2015-16
2015-16 $1.217
2016-17 $1.717
2017-18 $2.717
2018-19 $4.217
2019-20 $4.217
2020-21 $1.467
2021-22 $1.467
2022-23 $1.467
2023-24 $1.467
2024-25 $1.467


Buyout in 2017-18
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $2.42
2018-19 $3.92
2019-20 $3.92
2020-21 $1.17
2021-22 $1.17
2022-23 $1.17



Buyout in 2018-19
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $5.75
2018-19 $3.75
2019-20 $3.75
2020-21 $1.00
2021-22 $1.00

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Richards' contract is a boat anchor. That is fine today, but will not be fine in three years when we are really wanting that cap space.

In three years time we will also be rid of Bollig, Wideman, Jones, Smid, Engelland and Glencross. We wont quite be crippled with cap space.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Richards Buyout Scenarios Cap hit:

Calculations based on the same methodology described by capgeek's FAQ

No Buyout
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $5.75
2018-19 $5.75
2019-20 $5.75

Buyout in 2015-16
2015-16 $1.217
2016-17 $1.717
2017-18 $2.717
2018-19 $4.217
2019-20 $4.217
2020-21 $1.467
2021-22 $1.467
2022-23 $1.467
2023-24 $1.467
2024-25 $1.467


Buyout in 2017-18
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $3.00
2018-19 $4.50
2019-20 $4.50
2020-21 $1.75
2021-22 $1.75
2022-23 $1.75

Buyout in 2018-19
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $5.75
2018-19 $4.25
2019-20 $4.25
2020-21 $1.50
2021-22 $1.50

Based on this you'd want to buy him out sooner rather than later.

Screw this. Just let LA deal with this problem. They won't give up enough to ever make this worth it.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by DropIt

In three years time we will also be rid of Bollig, Wideman, Jones, Smid, Engelland and Glencross. We wont quite be crippled with cap space.

We still need hockey players to fill their spots....

And it's not like Bollig and Glencross are overpaid.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Richards Buyout Scenarios Cap hit:

Calculations based on the same methodology described by capgeek's FAQ

No Buyout
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $5.75
2018-19 $5.75
2019-20 $5.75

Buyout in 2015-16
2015-16 $1.217
2016-17 $1.717
2017-18 $2.717
2018-19 $4.217
2019-20 $4.217
2020-21 $1.467
2021-22 $1.467
2022-23 $1.467
2023-24 $1.467
2024-25 $1.467


Buyout in 2017-18
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $3.00
2018-19 $4.50
2019-20 $4.50
2020-21 $1.75
2021-22 $1.75
2022-23 $1.75

Buyout in 2018-19
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $5.75
2018-19 $4.25
2019-20 $4.25
2020-21 $1.50
2021-22 $1.50

I think some of those are too high. It looks like you didn't multiply the remaining salary by 2/3rds in a couple of them at least. In the last one the final 2 years should be $1M ($6M salary owed x 2/3rds = $4M divided out over 4 years = $1M a year) and the previous 2 years should be $3.75M. The one before that has the same issue.

Unless I'm missing something, this is what the last 2 should be:

Buyout in 2017-18
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $2.42
2018-19 $3.92
2019-20 $3.92
2020-21 $1.17
2021-22 $1.17
2022-23 $1.17

Buyout in 2018-19
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $5.75
2018-19 $3.75
2019-20 $3.75
2020-21 $1
2021-22 $1


I find CapGeek's (and the CBA's) explanation to be kind of convoluted. Essentially it's just cap hit - salary + buyout amount = buyout cap hit in each year. So in years where the cap hit is way higher than the salary the buyout's cap hit is pretty high.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I think some of those are too high. It looks like you didn't multiply the remaining salary by 2/3rds in a couple of them at least. In the last one the final 2 years should be $1M ($6M salary owed x 2/3rds = $4M divided out over 4 years = $1M a year) and the previous 2 years should be $3.75M. The one before that has the same issue.

Unless I'm missing something, this is what the last 2 should be:

Buyout in 2017-18
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $2.42
2018-19 $3.92
2019-20 $3.92
2020-21 $1.17
2021-22 $1.17
2022-23 $1.17

Buyout in 2018-19
2015-16 $5.75
2016-17 $5.75
2017-18 $5.75
2018-19 $3.75
2019-20 $3.75
2020-21 $1
2021-22 $1


I find CapGeek's (and the CBA's) explanation to be kind of convoluted. Essentially it's just cap hit - salary + buyout amount = buyout cap hit in each year. So in years where the cap hit is way higher than the salary the buyout's cap hit is pretty high.

Yup thanks. Missed it in my spreadsheet

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

...And Gio's final contract? Backlund's new contract this offseason? Bennett? Poirier? Ortio? Wotherspoon? Defensive depth to replace Wideman et al?

Crossing your fingers and hoping every player they have will take a huge paycut is nothing short of optimistic. And this after around six years of icing mediocre rosters of has-beens around Iginla and Kipprusoff just to say within the cap.

The idea of adding a guy like Toffoli excites me. But I don't think it's worth playing roulette with the future... you're effectively taking a 10milliion cap hit for him. Even Crosby and Malkin don't make that much.

Trade Wideman, problem solved. Backlund can be re-signed for reasonable dollars IMO. Hudler comes off the books in a year too. Jones is gone by then as well. If managed intelligently, there's room. I have full confidence this management team can make the numbers work. If they feel that it's not worth it, I would support that decision too. The other players you mentioned will not require significant contract extensions by the time the flames buy out Richards 2-3 years remaining.

Toffoli is not available IMO

[Mattman]

Probably posted in here but if not:
http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/01/28...ting-questions

This is everything wrong with him

However, he's lost a step, fitness has never been his forte, he's only 5-foot-11, he's no longer contributing offensively, and he's expensive as hell.

Amen.

So If we are going to bite the bullet and chop 5.75 mil off our cap space for the next 5 years (where the Flames could be strong contenders for the latter part of the 5) then there needs to be BIG chips coming back, especially if we are helping out a rival like LA.

[CliffFletcher]

Richards is another Wade Redden. Let's not pretend he's a hockey asset. Any deal will be strictly about what LA offers in exchange for the cap hit.