[News] Flames have not had recent contract talks with Glencross

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

This is a pretty sad organization. 3 series wins in 25 seasons, and 5 playoff appearances in the past 17. I would say making the playoffs should be sort of important. More important than moving one of your better forwards for the 88th pick in the draft.

Bingo. If someone blows you away with an offer and Glencross waives, you have to do it. Or if you fall out of the race, you have to do it. But if not, I don't think the team is as tied to OMGUFADUMPHIM as some fans are. That is not to say they wouldn't consider dealing Glencross anyway - if they are convinced someone can and will replace his place with the team - but that the team is going to balance long term needs with the present. That means not dealing prospects and picks for the immediate, but I suspect the team is likewise not going to needlessly sacrifice the present either.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yup. Better to follow the Oilers model. Dump all the vets and be bad forever until suddenly, Stanley Cup champions!

Or, we can stop pretending that the development and growth of an organization is a binary process.

Yes, because not trading a vet who won't even be here next year will turn us into the Oilers. Drama queen much?

I'm so tired of people bringing up the Oilers boogeyman all the time. There are 28 other teams in this league besides the Edmonton Oilers to learn from...and the last time I checked, all the teams who have won a Stanley Cup in the last decade where ones who did it through stockpiling picks, good drafting, patient team building, and of course, some luck. The Oilers have done none of those things...and yet if you don't cream your pants for the playoffs in year 2 of the rebuild, you get accused of being an Oiler.

All I know as a Flames fan, is that I've seen this team make it past the first round only twice in a QUARTER OF A CENTURY. Im tired of that route. I want this team to win the damn Cup, not just to make the playoffs. Cinderella teams don't win...well built teams do. And well built teams know when it's time to say trade an outgoing asset.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by FBI

ARGH not every little move like trading glencross for some futures turns us into the oilers!!! <--- this drives me crazy

Our management is not incompetent like the oilers.

I think selling off your 3rd best forward who is also a captain when you're in a playoff race is pretty Oiler sounding to me

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by neo45

Thank you. This thread is a sad mix of NHL 15 and an Oilers forum right now


Making the playoffs this year would be the biggest accomplishment the organization has had in 10 years. In needs to be a goal. We should not be selling for picks


* also I should point out that NOT trading someone is in no way abandoning a rebuild. Was the rebuild over when they didn't trade Cammy?

Playoffs are always the goal first and foremost. Why is this even up for debate?
The real question is why is Glencross so key to a playoff push when he's not really been a difference maker this season anyways.
Seems like you're making a mountain out of a mole hill when the title of this thread is No negotiations have been started with Glencross or Ramo. And if I heard Treliving properly in that interview he certainly was in no rush to confirm or deny any interest in even beginning those talks any time soon.

And people saying they can live with the players moving on is not NHL 15 based theory or Oilers' esque school of thought either. LW is the DEEPEST position within the organization. with players equal to or ready to equal his output so far. Veteran presence? Well, there's certainly no shortage of those kinds of players around the Flames either is there? If he is dealt for a pick or a prospect or a roster player that plays a different position it's all aces to me.

Glencross's presence or lack thereof if they trade him will not have the impact you think it will.

[chubeyr1]

Do we keep Glencross?

First off lets all take a look at the obvious. Glencross has a no trade clause. Why does he wave the clause? Seriously, why? Does he owe management a favor? Personally I think Glencross might just be a little bitter contract talks have yet to start.

Personally I would like to resign Glencross. I do not see a replacement for him at this time in the organization. I would like to see a 2 year contract at no more than 5 million but he probably wants 3 years or more at 5.5 million.

A lot of people dump on Glencross, I for one have as well. He can be lazy, and he can take some really dumb penalties too. Yet he adds alot to the team. Good skater, I would say he is a 20 goal scorer, good defensively, and physical. Would also like to add he is a team player.

I would tell you to extent Glencross for three years is an easier pill for me to swallow than the Stajan extension. Monahan, Bennett, Backlund, Jooris, Granlund, Shore, Arnold, where exactly does Stajan fit in that group?

There is alot more need for a guy like Glencross now and in the next few years. Guys to replace Stajan are plently, and most have already surpassed him on the depth chart already.

Who has surpassed Glencross? Johnny Hockey, Bouma, Byron, Raymond, Bollig, Sven, Klimchuck? We have lots of depth on left wing just not alot of skill.

Again Just my opinion!

As for trade value? Glencross is a pure rental, teams know this. If he gives a list of teams he would accept a trade too his value will be lower as well. I think at best all we would get is a 3rd round pick, hope for a 2nd but trying to be realistic.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

This is a pretty sad organization. 3 series wins in 25 seasons, and 5 playoff appearances in the past 17. I would say making the playoffs should be sort of important. More important than moving one of your better forwards for the 88th pick in the draft.

What counts is building a team that can win the Cup, not a team that can only make the playoffs. Cinderella teams just don't win cups. There is no "but, what if".

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by neo45

I think selling off your 3rd best forward who is also a captain when you're in a playoff race is pretty Oiler sounding to me

If he is that valuable, I'm sure the Flames will find a way to re sign.

Amazing we were able to survive the West coast road trip without him.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Playoffs are always the goal first and foremost. Why is this even up for debate?
The real question is why is Glencross so key to a playoff push when he's not really been a difference maker this season anyways.
Seems like you're making a mountain out of a mole hill when the title of this thread is No negotiations have been started with Glencross or Ramo. And if I heard Treliving properly in that interview he certainly was in no rush to confirm or deny any interest in even beginning those talks any time soon.

And people saying they can live with the players moving on is not NHL 15 based theory or Oilers' esque school of thought either. LW is the DEEPEST position within the organization. with players equal to or ready to equal his output so far. Veteran presence? Well, there's certainly no shortage of those kinds of players around the Flames either is there? If he is dealt for a pick or a prospect or a roster player that plays a different position it's all aces to me.

Glencross's presence or lack thereof if they trade him will not have the impact you think it will.

I wasn't commenting on anything Treliving said just to clarify, rather the demand to sell of Glencross at the deadline. There is plenty of time for the parties to talk if there is interest

[Vinny01]

If the team does well during the injury they should totally look at moving him if the option presented itself. I believe they have depth at LW on the farm and pots tidally Lance Bouma can take on the role Glencross currently plays.

With Bennett, Porier, Baertschi coming next year (I think they will all be full time flames) we should move on from Glencross. Get assets for him or let him walk it unless he accepts RYmonds contract then move on

[saillias]

It's not black and white between SELL FOR PICK/KEEP AND RE-SIGN TO BIG PAYDAY. You can still make trades in the NHL where you trade a player for a player. Even with a UFA! Or, even package roster player plus assets for a bigger fish. Just something to think about...

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Who has surpassed Glencross? Johnny Hockey, Bouma, Byron, Raymond, Bollig, Sven, Klimchuck? We have lots of depth on left wing just not alot of skill.

Again Just my opinion!

Of that list the only possible answer is Gaudreau.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Table 5

All I know as a Flames fan, is that I've seen this team make it past the first round only twice in a QUARTER OF A CENTURY. Im tired of that route. I want this team to win the damn Cup, not just to make the playoffs. Cinderella teams don't win...well built teams do. And well built teams know when it's time to say trade an outgoing asset.

So if the team doesn't get a great offer for Glencross and chooses not to move him, does that mean we won't win the Cup ever again? Does it mean we are no longer on the path to being a "well built team"?

You are completely lost in your own little world, Table 5. The team isn't selling players just to sneak into the playoffs, so your complaining about how the team was run is irrelevant. But the team - on both the hockey and business sides - certainly would love to make the playoffs. You don't think giving the likes of Gaudreau, Brodie, Monahan a taste of what the post-season is like wouldn't be good for them? It's the exact same thinking that has so many so enamoured with rushing Bennett to the NHL once healthy. Give him a taste...

Like I've said three times now, if we get a really good offer or the team (not fans wanting their shiny new toys now, the team) is convinced someone is ready to take Glencross' place, you probably pull the trigger. If not, they might well take the chance. But the way to ensure the Flames seriously look at moving Glencross regardless is to start cheering for losses.

So go on then. Start cheering for losses.

[nfotiu]

Not trading Cammy was a mistake even if a 4th rounder was the best offer on the table. Having Cammy for the last 20 games of last year was worth absolutely nothing to the Flames.

If we're in 9th place or better at the trade deadline, Glencross has considerable value to us. No reason to trade the future for anyone, but we have to go with who got us here. A first round whipping, missing 8th place on the last week of the season, a cinderella run to the conference finals... they all mean playing meaningful games and give us things to build on for the next year. Trading away Glencross and Ramo and fading to tenth eleventh doesn't really do the same.

Also, making the playoffs is going to sell a lot more season tickets next year. That should not be overlooked as factor on what is spent on ice in these times of a lower Canadian dollar, and lower oil prices.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The goal should always be winning the cup. This organization forced themselves into the rebuild by their belief that just making the playoffs was good enough. Making the playoffs ahead of schedule and thinking you are better than you really are is what got the Senators to regress into the meddling team they are today. This team isn't anywhere near being a cup contender so making moves to improve the organization going forward should be placed ahead of just sneaking in the 8th spot.

You dont need to be a "cup contender" to see benefits from making the playoffs.

You have to crawl before you walk....and right now the team is trying to walk.

You have to walk before you run....and you need to run to win a SC.

Step 1 is ALWAYS try and win and i would argue that making the playoff is just as beneficial (or even moreso) to a young team trying to figure it out, than trading away one of your leaders in hopes of getting some random draft pick and a fringe prospect. All while taking away a major part of the very leadership group that has created the identity this team has.

There is NO downside to making the playoffs this season (FTR I dont think they will) but unless you get an offer that only makes you better now AND down the road, there is no pressure to trade him.

That being said...i believe he will be dealt by March 2nd, but only if no extension is signed which i doubt occurs. Also i do think the return will be decent as Glencross has a talent set that every team in hockey would like.

He will get paid as a UFA, of that there is little doubt...it all comes down to how much he wants to stay near home vs the big payday. Cant blame him for choosing either path.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

So go on then. Start cheering for losses.

Hah, nice try. I never said that you trade Glencross at any cost. I said you don't trade him just to make the playoffs "if you can get good assets in return". Pretty big difference from what you're trying to paint me as. I might be lost in my world, but at least my world is not about jumping to massive conclusions and thinking that trading Glencross means we are "dumping all our vets and turning into the Oilers". It's never that black and white.

The Flames have made a massive step beyond expectations this year, with or without the playoffs. As a coach and player, you absolutely hope these guys are pushing to make the playoffs....but as a GM, you can't keep changing your plan with every weekly up and down of the win column.

And for those who don't think getting even a 4th rounder is worth it...there are at least two key guys on this Flames team who would tell you otherwise. The draft is still largely a crapshoot, and smart teams hoard draft picks like they are going out of style...it doesn't mean you will automatically turn into the damn Oilers.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Making the playoffs ahead of schedule and thinking you are better than you really are is what got the Senators to regress into the meddling team they are today.

Not loving the comparison. Since their cup run in 2007 their drafting has been pretty bad with the exception of Karlsson, some of the few other decent choices have been traded away. They have been plagued with injuries to their star players. Murray really hasn't been a good GM in my opinion and their owner is a tightwad.

[kyuss275]

I would be amazed if Glencross waives if we are in a playoff spot come the deadline. I am pretty much under the impression he walks in the summer and flames get nothing for him.

That said I'm not sure who fills his shoes going against top lines next year. Sorry not sold on Jones doing it and the youngsters like Sven, Poirier, Bennett should not have to take on that challenge next year.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Not trading Cammy was a mistake even if a 4th rounder was the best offer on the table. Having Cammy for the last 20 games of last year was worth absolutely nothing to the Flames.

The morale of the dressing room maybe?

How do you think the overall mood of a dressing room is after they trade their veteran top goal scorer because "well this season is a write-off and that guy is gone afterwards anyway." For one that's just hindsight, we did try to re-sign him, and secondly it's deflating. Players don't give a flying fata about their bosses picks in the next draft

I think the positive vibe of the team carrying over to this season is worth something at least.

[GioforPM]

I can see Glencross waiving for the right team. I don't think he is vital to a playoff push, nor do I think making the first round of the playoffs is a necessity at this stage. Just the playoff fight is good experience and an upwards step.

I don't think the Flames will re-sign him, so the real question is what can they get for him? Something is better than nothing, and even with him, POs might not be achieved. I don't think he is that much of a game breaker.

[FireGilbert]

The Glencross situation is a win win for me and is totally different from getting nothing for Cammy last season. If the Flames trade him I will be happy at their asset management and if they keep him I will be happy they are making a push for the playoffs.

Just don't re-sign him, there are too many young LWers ready to pass him on the depth chart.