[Signing] Flames sign Deryk Engelland (3yrs, $2.9M AAV)

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

It is too bad that he did not have access to the previous GM who had been with the team for a year and had fired the previous GM. That guy would have been helpful to provide insight. If Treliving did not know how far along our prospects were then the rest of the Flames management team who had been around for at least a year failed him and the organization.

Having access to others opinions is great but if I was in charge, I'd like to see what we've got for myself. What he acquired were a few place holders. If we find we have something better on the farm (Jooris) than what we signed (Setoguchi) well it isn't going to cost much for this minor mistake.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

It is too bad that he did not have access to the previous GM who had been with the team for a year and had fired the previous GM. That guy would have been helpful to provide insight. If Treliving did not know how far along our prospects were then the rest of the Flames management team who had been around for at least a year failed him and the organization.

These guys aren't psychic. You think they should have known Gaudreau would be 2nd in rookie scoring and a guy like Jooris was gonna make the team? No one could have known that. Not to mention Treliving should be forming his own opinions not making decisions based on the opinions of the guy being fired.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Well, if this is any indication:

http://www.matchsticksandgasoline.co...a-regular-line

Quote:
Surprise performer here in Rafa Diaz. He didn't face tough competition, but he didn't get preferable zone starts, either, but he sure was an asset, and he was miles better when separated from Deryk Engelland - we're talking from 43.75% CF with to 88.89% without - although it should be stressed that that's 10 minutes with, and three without.
Still, Engelland just isn't as good. He had a harder time in regards to zone starts, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the Flames were doing much better possession-wise with Diaz out there. I genuinely cannot, for the life of me, understand why Hartley defaults to Ladislav Smid with Engelland when everyone's healthy. Diaz isn't this team's #7 defenceman, he's the #5.

Then maybe even the guy we've kind of neglected is a better choice than than Engelland to put beside Smid.

Anyone who quotes CF stats based off 3 minutes of ice-time should never be allowed near a keyboard again. Good lord.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

It is too bad that he did not have access to the previous GM who had been with the team for a year and had fired the previous GM. That guy would have been helpful to provide insight. If Treliving did not know how far along our prospects were then the rest of the Flames management team who had been around for at least a year failed him and the organization.

There's the Aarongavey jab at Burke I was waiting for. You let that one build up longer than usual.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

We didn't have Bollig and Engelland on the team last year, and I certainly can't recall any game where the team got bullied.

Unless you include the time we did the bullying to the Canucks.

Team was being bullied for two years which prompted the McGrattan, McDermid and Westgarth acquisitions. Team played better after the Westgarth acquisition and after they asserted their physicality in the Canucks brawl.

Treliving has replaced McGrattan and Westgarth with Engelland and Bollig, better players for the role. Burke attributed some of the teams success this year to the Bollig and Engelland acquisitions but I guess all you Burke haters out there know more about building a team then Burke.

Bollig played a regular shift for the Blackhawks and won a Stanley cup. Jordan Nolan isn't that much better of a player than Bollig but he also played a regular shift for the KINGS in their Stanley cup championships. Shawn Thornton was a big contributor to the Bruins championship and is not a better player than Bollig.

Why did the past three Stanley cup champions utilize players like Bollig? Is it because they didnt know what they were doing? Or maybe players like this contribute in ways that aren't necessarily reflected on the scoresheet?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

There's the Aarongavey jab at Burke I was waiting for. You let that one build up longer than usual.

I just can't wait for the trade deadline, now that we have an organizational reputation for getting good value for our assets. That is something that will help us not only this year but ten years down the road as well.

[Hackey]

Ya the organization is just crumbling because we didn't land that 3rd round pick. That sure set us back years.

[ForeverFlameFan]

FWIW:
I would rather have a contract like Engelland than Orpiks
I would rather have a contract like Bollig than Clarkson
I would rather have a contract like Stajan than M. Richards.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

FWIW:
I would rather have a contract like Engelland than Orpiks
I would rather have a contract like Bollig than Clarkson
I would rather have a contract like Stajan than M. Richards.

I would rather have a contract like Weber than Engelland.

+1 for the attempt at defending them, but man, compare apples to apples.

[ComixZone]

The anti-Bollig/Engelland stuff is stupid. You know why we're having success? Team chemistry. All the players are playing together, and playing for each other. Bollig and Engelland are a part of that, just like McGrattan before them. They are not awful players. They are 3rd pairing and 4th line players. They've also filled those roles on much better rosters than ours. Why? Because they bring something to the team dynamic. It likely can't be measured in just on-ice contributions, but a lot of why we are having success can't be either. You don't magically turn into the hardest working teams in the league, it takes chemistry and belief in your team - Bollig and Engelland are a part of that.

So, if you're going to praise the team as a whole, then stop tearing it down. We don't need a "goat" right now. There's no reason to be so negative. We had to sign players in free agency to hit the salary floor, and we did. Instead of handing out idiotic contracts to players like Orpik and other vets who would push our young players down the depth chart, we signed high-character role players who raise our youngsters up and give them space to develop. They've done just that.


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[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I just can't wait for the trade deadline, now that we have an organizational reputation for getting good value for our assets. That is something that will help us not only this year but ten years down the road as well.

yawn

[googol]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The anti-Bollig/Engelland stuff is stupid. You know why we're having success? Team chemistry. All the players are playing together, and playing for each other. Bollig and Engelland are a part of that, just like McGrattan before them. They are not awful players. They are 3rd pairing and 4th line players. They've also filled those roles on much better rosters than ours. Why? Because they bring something to the team dynamic. It likely can't be measured in just on-ice contributions, but a lot of why we are having success can't be either. You don't magically turn into the hardest working teams in the league, it takes chemistry and belief in your team - Bollig and Engelland are a part of that.

So, if you're going to praise the team as a whole, then stop tearing it down. We don't need a "goat" right now. There's no reason to be so negative. We had to sign players in free agency to hit the salary floor, and we did. Instead of handing out idiotic contracts to players like Orpik and other vets who would push our young players down the depth chart, we signed high-character role players who raise our youngsters up and give them space to develop. They've done just that.


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Calgary is fighting to stay in 8th place.
We are not doing THAT well. Better than expected yes, but unless we are near the top of the standings, there will be a players who aren't contributing to the team's success.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The anti-Bollig/Engelland stuff is stupid. You know why we're having success? Team chemistry. All the players are playing together, and playing for each other. Bollig and Engelland are a part of that, just like McGrattan before them. They are not awful players. They are 3rd pairing and 4th line players. They've also filled those roles on much better rosters than ours. Why? Because they bring something to the team dynamic. It likely can't be measured in just on-ice contributions, but a lot of why we are having success can't be either. You don't magically turn into the hardest working teams in the league, it takes chemistry and belief in your team - Bollig and Engelland are a part of that.

So, if you're going to praise the team as a whole, then stop tearing it down. We don't need a "goat" right now. There's no reason to be so negative. We had to sign players in free agency to hit the salary floor, and we did. Instead of handing out idiotic contracts to players like Orpik and other vets who would push our young players down the depth chart, we signed high-character role players who raise our youngsters up and give them space to develop. They've done just that.


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That's kind of silly. We can't discuss the players that aren't part of a solution because of a magical effect their having. Engelland and Smid are not contributing to any success, and the flames would be better with better players playing there. That's not going to disrupt anything of we have better players playing there.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

That's kind of silly. We can't discuss the players that aren't part of a solution because of a magical effect their having. Engelland and Smid are not contributing to any success, and the flames would be better with better players playing there. That's not going to disrupt anything of we have better players playing there.

Team chemistry is now a magical effect and doesn't contribute to a teams success.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Team chemistry is now a magical effect and doesn't contribute to a teams success.

Real chemistry isn't magical, but a 3rd pair struggling by every single measurable metric contributing to team success is magical.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Not sure if it is Edwards, Burke or Teliving but I firmly believe that the Flames as a business will no longer add any A" list players as UFA's again.
It will be the Raymond, Engelland, Diaz, Setoguchi variety of junk.
The strength of the future Flames teams will be through drafting and that is based on scouting hope and luck.
If the Flames want to get to that next level they are going to have to include at least B" level UFA's.
On paper Raymond in 2013 was a second tier UFA but Engelland, Diaz, Setoguchi are 3rd tier UFA's the bottom of the bottom.
If Burke and Treliving continue this the Flames will continue to just come up short.
Not sure if that is their choice or they are being instructed to not pursue A" list players.
Whatever the case is they will have to hope they hit home run after home run in the drafts.
Kind of reminds me of rainbow thought of buying penny stocks hoping they hit a $.

The days of A-list players making it to UFA status are drawing to a close. Those kinds of players now get locked up for the duration of their prime. What you're left with are guys on the wrong side of 32 who have A-list reputations but no longer have A-list game.

The NHL is becoming a draft and develop league. Meaningful trades are rare. Free agency is a way to round out the supporting roles on rosters. That may be disappointing to fans who love trades and imagine quick turnarounds. But it's reality. And it's a league-wide approach, not a Flames thing.

[GioforPM]

I think perhaps the Flames (and other teams, because there were others wanting Engelland) made too much of how a 4th line forward and a bottom pairing defenceman did on very good teams. Perhaps they thought that if Bollig could be a 4th liner on Chicago it meant he would be possibly a 3rd liner here, or at least a very good 4th.

But perhaps that's wrong - maybe the fact the team was good means that those guys' flaws were covered by linemates or the overall strength of the team.

[Inglewood Jack]

^ finally, the correct answer...have already said this a couple of times and didn't want to repeat again

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Real chemistry isn't magical, but a 3rd pair struggling by every single measurable metric contributing to team success is magical.

That's the point. Posters are trying to explain that certain players bring elements to a team that can't be measured by statistics. Team chemistry being one of them.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Hackey

That's the point. Posters are trying to explain that certain players bring elements to a team that can't be measured by statistics. Team chemistry being one of them.

By your logic the Flames should recall Setoguchi for chemistry purposes. The Flames are only playing .500 since they sent Setoguchi down, I can only imagine the loss of chemistry provided by Setoguchi is one of the factors.