[Signing] Flames sign Deryk Engelland (3yrs, $2.9M AAV)

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

We didn't have Bollig and Engelland on the team last year, and I certainly can't recall any game where the team got bullied.

Unless you include the time we did the bullying to the Canucks.

We had two tougher guys in the lineup but skill wise they couldn't keep up with the changing league. I'm a little disappointed in Bollig as he hasn't seemed to be the deterrent he was made out to be but the need for a player like he was supposed to be is a given. Would you rather have McGrattan and Westgarth back?

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

It's interesting that all of Treliving's moves thus far have either been really good, or really bad. Not a lot in between.

Bollig - Terrible
Raymond - Terrible
Engelland - Terrible
Setoguchi - Terrible
Diaz - Filler

Bennett - Great
McDonald - Great
Smith - Very Good
Hickey - Great
Hiller - Great
Shore for Knight - A likely NHL roster player for a guy near the bottom of the forward depth ranks.

Bennett is a no brainer but draft guys can't be determined as great until they are proven in the NHL or even making it there.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

We had two tougher guys in the lineup but skill wise they couldn't keep up with the changing league. I'm a little disappointed in Bollig as he hasn't seemed to be the deterrent he was made out to be but the need for a player like he was supposed to be is a given. Would you rather have McGrattan and Westgarth back?

I'd rather have neither of these players in the lineup because we are acting like we've created a solution for a problem that never existed.

With that said, Bollig is a much better hockey player than those two, but he's still a mediocre 4th liner.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'd rather have neither of these players in the lineup because we are acting like we've created a solution for a problem that never existed.

With that said, Bollig is a much better hockey player than those two, but he's still a mediocre 4th liner.

Well if you couldn't see a problem with our team getting manhandled and our goalie getting run game in and game out, I guess there is no discussion.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Bennett is a no brainer but draft guys can't be determined as great until they are proven in the NHL or even making it there.

If they're making good progress on where they were last year, then in my books they're doing great. That can go sideways at any point.

McDonald's GAA has dropped by 0.40 this year

Hickey is 9th in Defensemen scoring by players under the age of 21 in the NCAA and only Werenski and Hanifin are younger than him (both expected to be top 8 picks this year)

Smith already matched his goal output in 27 less games. Has only 10 points to go to exceed his point totals.

That's what you're hoping for when you're making picks outside the first round. Whether they can make the next steps is tbd.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well if you couldn't see a problem with our team getting manhandled and our goalie getting run game in and game out, I guess there is no discussion.

has this happened to any team ever?

so yeah, I guess literally there is no discussion.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

has this happened to any team ever?

so yeah, I guess literally there is no discussion.

But the only thing stopping them is goons sitting on the bench and losing the puck 5 minutes a game. Oops. That was last year

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

has this happened to any team ever?

so yeah, I guess literally there is no discussion.

Yeah, it happens to teams that are losers.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well if you couldn't see a problem with our team getting manhandled and our goalie getting run game in and game out, I guess there is no discussion.

ahh yes, the "our goon fights their goon and therefore we don't get manhandled" myth.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=702668

Sorry but whoever wrote that article is wrong. Bennett can't be assigned to the AHL, it is the Flames or Junior.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If they're making good progress on where they were last year, then in my books they're doing great. That can go sideways at any point.

McDonald's GAA has dropped by 0.40 this year

Hickey is 9th in Defensemen scoring by players under the age of 21 in the NCAA and only Werenski and Hanifin are younger than him (both expected to be top 8 picks this year)

Smith already matched his goal output in 27 less games. Has only 10 points to go to exceed his point totals.

That's what you're hoping for when you're making picks outside the first round. Whether they can make the next steps is tbd.

Most teams could make that claim about a lot of their picks, it is not exactly surprising that guys playing in the same league and are a year older (Smith) are doing better.

Hickey was always going to be a good pick, he was a solid player in Midget AAA, arguably one of the top dmen at nationals in Leduc that year and was a top dman in the AJ and got a scholly in his first year in the league to a top school, that is usually a good indicator of success.

But to say Smith is a good pick because he has 30 points in 37 games and has matched his previous year total basically sounds good because he was so anemic the year before offensively.

If I was Arizona I would be much more excited about Dvorak or Tampa with Point.

Either way based on what you can judge the Treliving and Burke combo on the results are pretty pathetic, this is Feaster's team and basically Feaster's players or stalwarts left over from the previous regime are the reason this team is doing well. Treliving and Burke have shown their ability to sign the taxi squad, they have a keen eye for the black aces of hockey. Where the picks end up is more of a longterm process.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Sorry but whoever wrote that article is wrong. Bennett can't be assigned to the AHL, it is the Flames or Junior.

I think he can if he's on a conditioning stint, but I don't know if that applies though with him skating with the Flames for the past few weeks.

[Stay Golden]

Treliving's off season decisions have been turds.

Bollig
Raymond
Engelland
Setoguchi
Diaz

Hiller has been the only decent UFA offseason addition.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

It's interesting that all of Treliving's moves thus far have either been really good, or really bad. Not a lot in between.

Bollig - Terrible
Raymond - Terrible
Engelland - Terrible
Setoguchi - Terrible
Diaz - Filler

Bennett - Great
McDonald - Great
Smith - Very Good
Hickey - Great
Hiller - Great
Shore for Knight - A likely NHL roster player for a guy near the bottom of the forward depth ranks.

Every FA signing was terrible, and we haven't seen a single player from the draft play a (regular season) game in a Flames sweater yet so lets not count our chickens before they're chickens.

Here's the thing though, Treliving wasn't around at any point of the season before he was signed on. He conducted a bunch of meetings (likely), looked at the roster, moved some names around, and found out where the biggest holes on the team were. None of the contracts are more than three years in length, which basically makes them all tradable in the coming season.

Engelland has been awful, but it's a prudent move to put a veteran in than destroy the game of a rookie by rushing him before he's physically/mentally ready for the NHL.

Setoguchi was terrible, but it was a purposeful move. Create some bottom end pressure on your roster, show players they've got to beat out a vet if they want a spot, no freebies.

Raymond was again, a stop-gap player, with risk factor. We 've s en two Raymonds this year, and I was a fan of the goal scoring one we saw pre-injury. Can he be an effective line-mate? Maybe, I don't think the window has closed for him yet. Hartley has no problem scratching him, so it hasn't done much in terms of stifling others from getting a chance in the line-up.

Bollig has also been terrible. I don't like the way he thinks the game. I'm ready to see someone else in his place, and a part of me feels like Burke had a little something to do with this. Bollig is playing below-replacement level and I'm ready to see that replacement happen (Wolf/Ferland).

Hiller has been streaky as they come, is 13-15 on the season, and is not a great signing but still his best move of the off-season. Moving from Berra-Ramo to Hiller-Ramo took us from the basement to 2nd tier goaltending, and has allowed us to compete. Ortio/Gillies are knocking on the door, and Will be ready for the reigns once Hiller's contract is up.

The Knight for Shore thing... well... its a bit of a toss-up. they are equally skilled in my book (maybe different skill-sets, but both NHL-bound) and we handcuffed ourselves by taking waiver-worry Shore instead of growing Knight's game. This move is fully in the wait and see phase.

So things seem really bad if you just look at it to this point right now.

But I think we'll see all this moves as necessary and insignificant in the coming season when those players are gone and the youth of the future have risen up to take their place. Treliving isn't looking to win the cup this season (I mean of course he is, but,) he's got his eyes on the future. Hartley's extension, Brodie's extension. That shows his true plan for the future of the franchise.

Sometimes I find myself getting too hung up on the stop-gap players that play maybe 7-15 minutes a night and are really periphery players more than anything else.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Most teams could make that claim about a lot of their picks, it is not exactly surprising that guys playing in the same league and are a year older (Smith) are doing better.

Hickey was always going to be a good pick, he was a solid player in Midget AAA, arguably one of the top dmen at nationals in Leduc that year and was a top dman in the AJ and got a scholly in his first year in the league to a top school, that is usually a good indicator of success.

But to say Smith is a good pick because he has 30 points in 37 games and has matched his previous year total basically sounds good because he was so anemic the year before offensively.

If I was Arizona I would be much more excited about Dvorak or Tampa with Point.

Either way based on what you can judge the Treliving and Burke combo on the results are pretty pathetic, this is Feaster's team and basically Feaster's players or stalwarts left over from the previous regime are the reason this team is doing well. Treliving and Burke have shown their ability to sign the taxi squad, they have a keen eye for the black aces of hockey. Where the picks end up is more of a longterm process.

Treliving hasn't even had a season as GM yet. What are you expecting at this point?

[BigRed]

I'm not sure what Engelland brings. Don't see a lot of physical play, certainly haven't seen any rough stuff from him. All I see are blunders and giveaways. How has he helped team toughness, and how much would it be hurt if he wasn't there?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by nik-

ahh yes, the "our goon fights their goon and therefore we don't get manhandled" myth.

I saw a big difference, if you didn't well what can I say.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Treliving's off season decisions have been turds.

Bollig
Raymond
Engelland
Setoguchi
Diaz

Hiller has been the only decent UFA offseason addition.

Bollig - plays his role well on the 4th line, they need a player who is physical.

Raymond - had a good season last year, his injuries are bad luck. Hoping he can turn his season around.

Engelland - Flames need a physical dman, especially since they have very little depth in this position. They over paid, but I bet they will have to over pay to sign UFAs.

Setoguchi - It was a risk, but there is no down side of the move. If it turned out well great but if it did not no biggie. Especially since the Flames have a tonne of cap space.

Diaz - for a dman who is 7th on the depth charts he has played quite well.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well if you couldn't see a problem with our team getting manhandled and our goalie getting run game in and game out, I guess there is no discussion.

you are 100% correct. It used to be a huge problem with guys taking a run at our goalie, happened nearly every game where the goalie would get pushed over and absolutely nothing would happen. Whether it's Engelland or not the problem has been substantially reduced, it was embarrassing watching the Flames stand around in front of our net while the goalie is on his back after getting run.

Most definitely a problem did exist, with Mcgrattan and Westgarth out and Engelland + Bollig in the problem is down because with Mcgrattan he could only be sent out as a hitman to take a run at somebody which easily leads to 5 minute majors but Engelland can be on the ice more than just to run somebody over.

[Vulcan]

One thing I remember Treliving say is that he was surprised by how ready our prospects were during training camp. If he had a better handle on our prospects he may not have signed a couple of the players that he did. It's a learning curve for him and so far he's been pretty conservative and hasn't made any blunders by trying to establish his brand on the team. I've been pretty happy with his stewardship so far.