Toronto is no good

[Hugh Jahrmes]

I need to step my life game up


I feel as though I am one of very few posters without firsthand experience inside various NHL locker rooms.. Making me unable to comment on who is and isn't toxic for said rooms

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

I need to step my life game up


I feel as though I am one of very few posters without firsthand experience inside various NHL locker rooms.. Making me unable to comment on who is and isn't toxic for said rooms

Feel free to play that card.

Feel free to also ignore media reports. Leaked insider reports. And his own former coach. It helps your argument if you do that.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

There's a grand Canyon size difference between Kane and Kessel defensively. They both torn the puck over because of their style, that's expected. The difference is Kane comes back to get it.


Score all the points you want, you're not a good team if one of your on ice leaders is above the team and won't help out in the areas that are less fun. That's how a team works.

Oh come on, Kane is incredibly one-dimensional. They are very similar players.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Kessel is a top line winger on almost any NHL team.

Kessel is also a locker room toxin on almost any NHL team.

The top scoring NHL winger the past few years is a top liner everywhere.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Does Boston win a Stanley cup with Kessel instead of Seguin? Kessel seems like an elite 1st line player, but not a player that will take you to the finals, even if he has the ability to.

Of course. Seguin was scratched for half of the Bruins playoff games in 2011'.

Kessel has 13 goals, 21 points in 22 playoff games BTW. Seguin has been brutal in the playoffs.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

If Kessel is on your first line then you are not a very good NHL team. Simple.

Boston was good with him on the top line.

Please find me a better second line winger in the NHL.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A. I don't think Kadri's line is a serious secondary scoring threat like other elite first lines have.

B. Kessel played over 20 minutes a night in 4 of the last 5 games. That's pretty big minutes for a forward.

C. He is not defensively sound. And he could be, which means that it's a choice he's made.

He's an elite scorer, who also benefits from being the only real offensive threat on his team IMO. I would have said the same about Iggy, and I do say the same about Hall.

You seem to be going by "Names". The Leafs have very nice scoring depth this season. Their offense is very good.

Kadri is actually a very good second line centre.

[savemedrzaius]

Small sample size but the Leafs have outshot their opponents 65-46 in their two games post-Carlyle. 3.1 more shots/game and 10 fewer shots against per game. Look like a completely different team.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Small sample size but the Leafs have outshot their opponents 65-46 in their two games post-Carlyle. 3.1 more shots/game and 10 fewer shots against per game. Look like a completely different team.

I said all along Carlyle was a huge problem. This idea it was Kessel and Phaneuf was silly.

Carlyle wasn't the only problem, but he was the biggest. What a joke of a "System" he implemented.

[Red John]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

This idea it was Kessel and Phaneuf was silly.

He's back everybody! After one win.

Reaching Oiler fan status. Impressive.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Red John

He's back everybody! After one win.

Reaching Oiler fan status. Impressive.

I was posting a lot 2 days ago when things were going horribly.

[Caged Great]

Toronto doesn't have the talent to do anything but waffle in mediocrity for the long term. Not good enough to be a contender, not bad enough to actually get better.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Toronto doesn't have the talent to do anything but waffle in mediocrity for the long term. Not good enough to be a contender, not bad enough to actually get better.

Kind of like the old Flames.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Boston was good with him on the top line.

Please find me a better second line winger in the NHL.

And they traded him for draft picks. And most pundits agree that Boston won the deal. That is despite Boston turning around and trading away the primary player drafted with the picks acquired from TO in a bad trade with Dallas.

Boston were also a much better team without him. You can't argue with the results post trade.

Hmm...

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

And they traded him for draft picks.

God I hate defending Kessel but Boston had no choice. He was an RFA due a big raise and Boston was very close to the cap. They had to either trade him or trade away someone else and they couldn't really afford to take back salary so draft picks were preferable. I still think if Burke hadn't been so bloody stubborn he could have offer sheeted Kessel for slightly less money and gave up a 1st, 2nd and 3rd as compensation rather than two 1st's and a 2nd.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Feel free to play that card.

Feel free to also ignore media reports. Leaked insider reports. And his own former coach. It helps your argument if you do that.

Where exactly was I making an argument? I said I need to step my game up, as it is admittedly not up to snuff.

Speculate as to an individual's toxicity in every locker room across the league.. It helps your argument is you do that.

[OzSome]

I got the feeling that Dion Phaneuf will lost his captaincy between now and the beginning of the next season.

This team is uncoachable. You bring a soft coach and the players will be all over him because they know they can get away with a lot of stuff. You bring in a tough coach (Carlyle) and some of the star player will start pouting and eventually will lose the attention of the whole team. Players are not the only problem in this team. Management, media and the fans are also a problem one way or another. Media and fans will always question the coaches decision then management will try to please them... blah, blah, blah..

[powderjunkie]

It seems pretty simple to me...Phaneuf and Kessel are good and very good hockey players respectively. They are simply not the type of players you build a winning team around. As has been suggested, swap Kane and Kessel and the results would be the same; ie. Kessel would be a terrific contributor on a 2x cup winning team and Kane would be a great scorer oft criticized on a crappy team.

Haven't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if he has been mentioned, but it's not a whole lot different than Iginla...Iggy certainly had flashes of playing a more well rounded game, but despite very good goaltending and defence, the flames couldn't take the next step with only one elite scoring winger.

There aren't many obvious comparables for Phaneuf, but his role and results aren't really unique in Toronto...Kaberle and McCabe were similarly unfairly positioned as #1 d-men, when they would have been better suited as #2 or 3. The Leafs didn't do much winning with them either.

[Mr.Coffee]

Phaneuf stopped doing what got him to where he is. So while he's okay, he's not okay for the price he's being paid.

He was much better in his first 2-3 years in Calgary where he was very physical and intimidated the opposition. Calgary could use a big defender that hammers people right now, actually. But I wouldn't want that ego in this city, as he strikes me as a guy who thinks he's above everyone else, nor that hideous contract.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

It seems pretty simple to me...Phaneuf and Kessel are good and very good hockey players respectively. They are simply not the type of players you build a winning team around. As has been suggested, swap Kane and Kessel and the results would be the same; ie. Kessel would be a terrific contributor on a 2x cup winning team and Kane would be a great scorer oft criticized on a crappy team.

Haven't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if he has been mentioned, but it's not a whole lot different than Iginla...Iggy certainly had flashes of playing a more well rounded game, but despite very good goaltending and defence, the flames couldn't take the next step with only one elite scoring winger.

There aren't many obvious comparables for Phaneuf, but his role and results aren't really unique in Toronto...Kaberle and McCabe were similarly unfairly positioned as #1 d-men, when they would have been better suited as #2 or 3. The Leafs didn't do much winning with them either.

They were a legit contender with both.

McCabe is a good example of Toronto defenders getting too much crap. He was really solid.