Toronto is no good

[Badgers Nose]

They are run by the press. Hodge on Naylor complains about no one addressing the press after Carlyle is dumped. Shanahan on the air next day.

What a pile of poop.

[ForeverFlameFan]

They seriously just need to rebuild.

[Buff]

Phil is indeed a 1st liner. The problem with him is that he is THE go to guy on the Leafs. As far us posting good offensive totals, he can be THE go to guy. However, if the Leafs wanted to be a winning team and a threat to make a big splash in the playoffs, they need to find a true offensive leader. Not just a guy who can score, but a guy who can play all facets of the game, and a guy who can compliment Kessel as a linemate or at least as an option for having two deadly scorers at two different times. That guy should be a centerman too.

Basically this is Phil and Dion's team. Phil and Dion just need to be key contributors, not the leaders.

Put Kessel on the Penguins or the Hawks and watch him flourish and grow as an all around player. He would learn the other side of the game better and still put up great numbers. On those teams he is not THE guy, he is a guy who compliments the go to guys.

[Buck Murdock]

LOL at Shanahan dithering about their core. Can't they see that Kessel, Phaneuf need to go?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Kessel is a 1st liner, a solid offensive player.

I just wouldn't want him as a 1st liner on the Flames. I don't think I'd want him on the Flames, period.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

They do. Look at the stats.

Excuses, excuses. The guy is putting-up more points than Patrick Kane does with the same ice-time and inferior linemates.

If Kessel played With Kadri, he;d score more than he does now. Kessel doesn't even play with Toronto's best centre.

Let me remind you at the time of the trade to Toronto, everyone said he would never score much without Marc Savard as his centre. Kessel has done the exact opposite as predicted, and somehow now being on the Leafs is some huge statistical advantage.

Kessel isn't even playing that much compared to the league's other top scorers.

A. I don't think Kadri's line is a serious secondary scoring threat like other elite first lines have.

B. Kessel played over 20 minutes a night in 4 of the last 5 games. That's pretty big minutes for a forward.

C. He is not defensively sound. And he could be, which means that it's a choice he's made.

He's an elite scorer, who also benefits from being the only real offensive threat on his team IMO. I would have said the same about Iggy, and I do say the same about Hall.

[Badgers Nose]

If Kessel is on your first line then you are not a very good NHL team. Simple.

[sa226]

The problem with Kessel, is that he is an elite offensive winger in the league. Arguably a game breaker, so you have to pay him like it.

But if he is your go to guy, the guy you count on to lead you when the chips are down, your team isn't going anywhere.

[cam_wmh]

Kessel is the only top player on that team. They don't have any top pairing defensemen, and goalies who identify as backups on top clubs.

I get that he's pretty much a one dimensional forward. (not much for defense)
But, if he were on a line with, another top centre, I don't think he'd see as much criticism.

If his caphit were a couple million less, I'd take him on the Flames. (DUCKS LOL)
(not withstanding any knowledge of him in the dressing room / easy to coach

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Does Boston win a Stanley cup with Kessel instead of Seguin? Kessel seems like an elite 1st line player, but not a player that will take you to the finals, even if he has the ability to.

[SuperMatt18]

IMO Kessel isn't the issue.

He is fine as a core player, he just can't be "the guy".

They need the Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron, type center.

Add a player like that to the top 6 and a Kessel can go score his points and be fine.

Bigger issue is Phaneuf, not good enough to be a true number 1 but gets paid enough that it makes it harder to bring in a true number one d-man.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Haha! Pr guy probably forgot which anoint he was logged into

No kidding. I dont think Air Canada really cares about Kessel.

Kessel is like a mirror image of Taylor Hall. He is a 'me first' player who puts up his points and thats about it.

[TheDebaser]

The issue I have with people who have an issue with kessel, is that I don't really understand what they think he's supposed to do. He's reliably a top ten player in points and goals. What, does he need to be top 5 before people stop criticizing him? Top 3 before he starts to get praise? He's a bit of a lone wolf who will show up and put up points with the best in the league. If you can accept that he's not exactly Captain Wow then you can come to terms with the fact that he's just a really good player with little to no intangibles, which is fine. I mean that, that's ok. He helps the team win. Don't just trade him because he doesn't live up to your own misguided expectations of what he should be.

What the leafs really need is to stop pretending their leadership core is any good at all. See what it takes to bring in Shane Doan or someone else who is capable of uniting a locker room.

If they can, they absolutely should make Mike Babcock a very rich man. Personally, I also think the organization should start having stricter media policy too, they shouldn't have access to the locker room. It's clearly a very negative distraction for the players.

[Erick Estrada]

Phaneuf should know full well that building a team around a winger doesn't work. They like the Flames in the Iginla years lack a true number one center. They have no chance until they get one. When Tyler Bozak is centering your number one line you have zero chance of winning a cup and a ceiling of contending for 8th spot. That's it in a nutshell.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

If Kessel is on your first line then you are not a very good NHL team. Simple.

How many other 500 point 27 year old 2nd line wingers play in this league?

[Jacks]

This place is silly sometimes. There are very few teams where Kessel wouldn't be a first liner.

[868904]

I don't watch either player enough but is Phil Kessel that much different than Patrick Kane?

Both dynamic offensive guys, small and soft, but game breakers.

Patrick Kane can't possibly be described as being defensively responsible.

Maybe the problem for the Leafs isn't that they have Kessel, but rather that they don't have a Jonathan Toews, Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, Patrick Sharp, or Marian Hossa.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by 868904

I don't watch either player enough but is Phil Kessel that much different than Patrick Kane?

Both dynamic offensive guys, small and soft, but game breakers.

Patrick Kane can't possibly be described as being defensively responsible.

Maybe the problem for the Leafs isn't that they have Kessel, but rather that they don't have a Jonathan Toews, Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, Patrick Sharp, or Marian Hossa.

There's a grand Canyon size difference between Kane and Kessel defensively. They both torn the puck over because of their style, that's expected. The difference is Kane comes back to get it.


Score all the points you want, you're not a good team if one of your on ice leaders is above the team and won't help out in the areas that are less fun. That's how a team works.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

The issue I have with people who have an issue with kessel, is that I don't really understand what they think he's supposed to do. He's reliably a top ten player in points and goals. What, does he need to be top 5 before people stop criticizing him? Top 3 before he starts to get praise? He's a bit of a lone wolf who will show up and put up points with the best in the league. If you can accept that he's not exactly Captain Wow then you can come to terms with the fact that he's just a really good player with little to no intangibles, which is fine. I mean that, that's ok. He helps the team win. Don't just trade him because he doesn't live up to your own misguided expectations of what he should be.

What the leafs really need is to stop pretending their leadership core is any good at all. See what it takes to bring in Shane Doan or someone else who is capable of uniting a locker room.

If they can, they absolutely should make Mike Babcock a very rich man. Personally, I also think the organization should start having stricter media policy too, they shouldn't have access to the locker room. It's clearly a very negative distraction for the players.

Really?

It's not about the points at all - everyone agrees that he produces points at an elite level.

The problem is that he has ZERO commitment to the team game. The game isn't just played in the other team's zone. And it isn't like football with separate offensive and defensive players. Players have to play at both ends of the rink.

But Kessel seems to think he is above that and that he can decide what he does and doesn't do on the ice.

When your highest paid player acts like that, you're going nowhere.

On all great teams, the best players are also the hardest working players.

On Toronto, that simply isn't the case. So it wouldn't matter if he led the league in scoring.

[Blaster86]

Kessel is a top line winger on almost any NHL team.

Kessel is also a locker room toxin on almost any NHL team.