Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by polak

I don't blame the French for retaliating if they do. 12 people dead over a cartoon about people playing make-belief is disgusting.

At what point do we give these extremists who seemingly want to take on the entire non-muslim world exactly what they want and deserve?

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But are you not obligated to investigate that Mosque. We know that Saudia Arabia has funded and built Mosques and Schools that feature a particularly virulent and fairly extreme version of Islam in Wahhabism.

CC, Polak's original post in this is ridiculous.

Should a mosque be investigated, yeah, if there is a credible link (I can't define that for you, it is outside of my knowledge).

I think that a knee jerk response like give them "what they want and deserve" isn't the best approach.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Believing isomething is not the same as worship.

In this case, what's the difference? Belief is a fundamental tenet of worship.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Lord helps those who help themselves.

FYI, this phrase is never mentioned anywhere in the Bible. It's a fabrication used predominantly by conservative Christians in the US to justify their lack of empathy towards poor people.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Why does a "god" not show his face, yet apparently think the best way to actually prove himself is when the one muscle in your body that can make rational and logical thoughts - the brain - have to be rotting six feet underground before the evidence is there? You literally and physically have to have #### for brains before god will prove himself to you. Which pretty much proves his existence.

This is exactly what I'm talking about "god" not being.

Again, if I believe there could be a higher power, this doesn't mean I believe in the Christian God or the idea of that altogether.

A higher power, or perhaps a creator, does not have to care about the pain and suffering of humans. An entity with god-like powers probably wouldn't have the vain or narcissistic qualities of humans and feel the need to prove himself. If it's another dimensional being, perhaps it doesn't even have the capability.

I don't think it's foolish to believe this.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by polak

So essentially, he lets millions of families lose their children to terminal illness at a young age to stroke his ego?

Sound like a great guy. I think I'd side with the anti-god if that's the case.

My whole family is super-catholic (my parents less so know that we're in Canada) but I made my decision before high school that there was too much pointless suffering in this world for their to be a God that would be worthy of worship. My grade 9 religion teacher told me that my final exam, where I answered the essay portion with my explination as to why I don't believe in God, made her cry and called me a bad person for it, when I asked her why thats the case, I'll never forget how she was lost for words and told me to leave.

I don't know why I'm debating it and I probably won't continue to, I'm the wrong person to debate it.

But it has nothing to do with Ego stroking.

First of all if you read the book of Genesis, it basically lays out that the world is under God's curse because of the rebellion of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Evil, God didn't create or divine acts of evil and suffering, but he allowed them entrance to this world.


I think it was in the book of Romans and in revelations that the world is a corrupted place but some day God will put it all right.

I guess you could argue that God didn't create evil in the world, and he probably isn't the guy pulling the triggers today, he created a flawed world and a flawed species if God did create man (again arguing from a biblical point of view and not my own right) and gave him free will, then he's not going to interject to stop those acts, the punishment suppossedly comes in the after life or the end of times.

Just some thoughts.

BTW I really don't think a religious debate is all that appropriate in this thread.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

This is exactly what I'm talking about "god" not being.

Again, if I believe there could be a higher power, this doesn't mean I believe in the Christian God or the idea of that altogether.

A higher power, or perhaps a creator, does not have to care about the pain and suffering of humans. An entity with god-like powers probably wouldn't have the vain or narcissistic qualities of humans and feel the need to prove himself. If it's another dimensional being, perhaps it doesn't even have the capability.

I don't think it's foolish to believe this.

You can definitely believe that, but will you storm the office and a magazine and kill people in order to 'defend' your entity if someone slanders it?

[The Yen Man]

Totally veering off topic now, but I agree that the whole God worship thing is silly. I mean really, if we are nothing but bacteria in a petri dish to some higher power, what does he care if we worship him or not? If you were working in a lab, would you care if some bacteria pray to you? I guess I'd find it amusing, but I wouldn't really be doing much about it.

Bringing it back on topic, really sad to hear. Makes you realize all the nutjobs in the world.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

FYI, this phrase is never mentioned anywhere in the Bible. It's a fabrication used predominantly by conservative Christians in the US to justify their lack of empathy towards poor people.

Huh it was interpreted from Sophocles who wrote

Sorry I have to look this up.

No good e'er comes of leisure purposeless; And heaven ne’er helps the men who will not act.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

This is exactly what I'm talking about "god" not being.

Again, if I believe there could be a higher power, this doesn't mean I believe in the Christian God or the idea of that altogether.

A higher power, or perhaps a creator, does not have to care about the pain and suffering of humans. An entity with god-like powers probably wouldn't have the vain or narcissistic qualities of humans and feel the need to prove himself. If it's another dimensional being, perhaps it doesn't even have the capability.

I don't think it's foolish to believe this.

Then why has this non-religious god followed the same as the religious gods and not proven himself or stopped bad things from happening?

I see what you're saying, and it goes back to Muta's example of we as an experiment in a petry dish - but the idea that no such entity exists is just as tenable as one that does, and when you think about it, the proof (or lack thereof) is more on the side of believing no such entity exists altogether.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Then why has this non-religious god followed the same as the religious gods and not proven himself or stopped bad things from happening?

I see what you're saying, and it goes back to Muta's example of we as an experiment in a petry dish - but the idea that no such entity exists is just as tenable as one that does, and when you think about it, the proof (or lack thereof) is more on the side of believing no such entity exists altogether.

You seem to be stuck on the idea that this is a magical Christian god that desires or even cares about the well-being of humans.

A creator is not a caregiver. It doesn't have to intervene in our lives (again, nor may it have the ability).

I believe that this higher power would be beyond our comprehension anyway. It may not be what we consider life.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

BTW I really don't think a religious debate is all that appropriate in this thread.

I agree with CC.


perhaps if there is a continued appetite to discuss this topic the mods could split the thread.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Muta

You can definitely believe that, but will you storm the office and a magazine and kill people in order to 'defend' your entity if someone slanders it?

I only made my comment in regard to the comment that all religion is bad.

If the idea is that religion is belief in something without proof, then I don't think that all religion is bad. I'm also not against changing such a belief when presented with new information.

Of course I have issue with these attacks and it sickens me.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

You seem to be stuck on the idea that this is a magical Christian god that desires or even cares about the well-being of humans.

A creator is not a caregiver. It doesn't have to intervene in our lives (again, nor may it have the ability).

I believe that this higher power would be beyond our comprehension anyway. It may not be what we consider life.

We know one thing about the "creator". We have no proof he exists.

You can believe what you want, but we can only believe what we have evidence of. You're relying on a hunch, which is exactly what billions of other people do with their religious gods too.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

We know one thing about the "creator". We have no proof he exists.

You can believe what you want, but we can only believe what we have evidence of. You're relying on a hunch, which is exactly what billions of other people do with their religious gods too.

It doesn't control my life. It's not something I think about often. It does not define me. I doubt anyone thinks about it exactly the way I do. I don't curse this entity when something bad happens, nor do I praise it for something good.

All I'm saying is that all belief is not bad. It certainly can be bad, as a result of flawed followers, vague misinterpretations, and blind obedience. I think that is the fault of one belief. Not all.

[troutman]

#spreadtherisk

#JeSuisCharlie

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

BTW I really don't think a religious debate is all that appropriate in this thread.

This thread only exists because there is a significant number within a specific religion that believes killing non-believers is their holy duty. You simply can't remove the religion portion out of a debate about Islamic terrorist attacks

[Flamenspiel]

Wow, this thread has really gone south. It only took a few pages to descend into the "...all religion is bad because..." angle that inevitably follows every terrorist attack.

The idea that simply believing in a religion justifies or explains killing journalists is absurd.

[nik-]

yeah, this thread went to ####.

[Muta]

How is a religious debate not appropriate in this thread? It's directly the cause of the shootings today. All associated discussion on everything that happened today should be welcome in here.

[Ozy_Flame]

Sorry. I agree, we should break this conversation out into a new thread, so other people can focus on talking about the human flesh that was ripped up in today's attack and can be separated psychologically from the religion debate.