Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

the numbers from Turkey should be troubling to anyone. Turkey is not a backwards country.
.

The data is missing quite a bit of context though. They are referring to the percent of people who support Sharia Law without saying exactly what percent or segment of the population actually supports Sharia Law.

For example, if one country only 1,000 people support Sharia Law, but 50% of those people support stoning for adultery, that would still only be 500 people, but in a country with a similar population where 1,000,000 support Sharia Law and only 10% support the same punishment, that is still a higher percentage of the population.

This graph would simply state them as 50% vs. 10% which would be pretty misleading.

(unless I am totally misinterpreting the data)

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The data is missing quite a bit of context though. They are referring to the percent of people who support Sharia Law without saying exactly what percent or segment of the population actually supports Sharia Law.

For example, if one country only 1,000 people support Sharia Law, but 50% of those people support stoning for adultery, that would still only be 500 people, but in a country with a similar population where 1,000,000 support Sharia Law and only 10% support the same punishment, that is still a higher percentage of the population.

This graph would simply state them as 50% vs. 10% which would be pretty misleading.

(unless I am totally misinterpreting the data)

\I found the article the images belonged too and posted the missing data in my original post, and here it is here:





http://www.chicagonow.com/an-agnosti...affleck-angry/

[CaptainCrunch]

The two key statements. The President of Egypt talks of reforming Islam, and to be honest that's a proper sentiment, however I don't think Islam has a Martin Luther individual who is going to hammer their version of the march to worms. Chances are that individual would be killed fairly quickly by the extremists.

I don't know if Islam can reform the extremists out, it just feels like too many of them are in positions of supreme power.

As far as the drawings. I looked back and that magazine has put up fairly satirical drawings of the Pope, of political figures of other religious figures. They're fairly equal opportunity in terms of who they go after.

Overall its a sad day.

Hopefully they catch these #######s and hang them I know that France doesn't have the death penalty, but there's nothing the matter with shooting these creeps 68 times in the face as they try to escape.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

No, but the stat I included on the previous page only references Muslims living in France.

From wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_...and_opposition

According to an ICM Research poll in 2006, 20% of British Muslims felt sympathy with the July 7 terrorist bombers' "feelings and motives", although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.

[...]

In a 2007 Pew Research poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified, in Europe:

64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.

70% of Muslims in Britain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 12% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.

83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 6% sometimes, and 1% thought it could be justified often.

69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 10 % sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.

Condemnation for terrorism in all cases is a view supported by two-thirds or more of European Muslims.

Originally Posted by Resurrection

the numbers from Turkey should be troubling to anyone. Turkey is not a backwards country.

The numbers from Turkey are 29% and 17%, which isn't alarming at all. Those figures are near and below, respectively, the crazification factor. For comparison, a similar percentage of Americans believe that Obama is the anti-Christ and Bigfoot is real (seriously).

[polak]

I don't blame the French for retaliating if they do. 12 people dead over a cartoon about people playing make-belief is disgusting.

At what point do we give these extremists who seemingly want to take on the entire non-muslim world exactly what they want and deserve?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by polak

At what point do we give these extremists who seemingly want to take on the entire non-muslim world exactly what they want and deserve?

At the point that you volunteer to be at the sharp end of the stick.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Condemnation for terrorism in all cases is a view supported by two-thirds or more of European Muslims.

According to these stats, approximately 282,000 Muslims in France believe violence against civilians, in the name of Islam, is justified.... 470,000 believe it is sometimes justified. That doesn't suggest a crisis to you?

[killer_carlson]

multi culturalism in europe, especially regarding muslims, will be more heavily debated in the coming weeks and months.

[Ducay]

Good twitter feed with all the cartoons drawn in support of those lost. Some really good, powerful messages in there

https://twitter.com/MailOnline/timel...57621188055040








And some finding humour in the situation:



"Oh no, not them..."

[nik-]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

multi culturalism in europe, especially regarding muslims, will be more heavily debated in the coming weeks and months.

Because it's failed. At least in some countries. Definitely in France. It's why I really hope Canada avoids the mistakes they made, and we have so far. Do not allow "ethnic enclaves" to develop. Respect for an immigrant's culture is important, but integration is just as important.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

According to these stats, approximately 282,000 Muslims in France believe violence against civilians, in the name of Islam, is justified. That doesn't suggest a crisis to you?

That view is unequivocally wrong, but it's only espoused by a small minority (~6%) of French Muslims. I can't find a stat off-hand, but I bet a similar or even greater percentage of US citizens would say that murdering abortion doctors is justified, but that doesn't mean that millions of Americans are going to start bombing clinics.

So I stand by my original statement that it's only a small percentage of bad apples who are radicals. Painting all European Muslims -- the vast majority of whom are law-abiding citizens who live peacefully and oppose terrorism and extremism -- with the same brush is reactionary and unjustified.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

According to these stats, approximately 282,000 Muslims in France believe violence against civilians, in the name of Islam, is justified.... 470,000 believe it is sometimes justified. That doesn't suggest a crisis to you?

To the bleeding heart Liberals around here, clearly not. It's sad because the problem is only going to get worse.

[polak]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

At the point that you volunteer to be at the sharp end of the stick.

If something like this happend in Calgary I don't think you'd have a hard time finding volunteers...

[Flames_Gimp]

Religion is the biggest problem with mankind.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

That view is unequivocally wrong, but it's only espoused by a small minority (~6%) of French Muslims. I can't find a stat off-hand, but I bet a similar or even greater percentage of US citizens would say that murdering abortion doctors is justified, but that doesn't mean that millions of Americans are going to start bombing clinics.

So I stand by my original statement that it's only a small percentage of bad apples who are radicals. Painting all European Muslims -- the vast majority of whom are law-abiding citizens who live peacefully and oppose terrorism and extremism -- with the same brush is reactionary and unjustified.

But muslims DO go out and bomb and murder by the tens of thousands at least. Why does that count for nothing?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by polak

If something like this happend in Calgary I don't think you'd have a hard time finding volunteers...

Sorry, who was the "we" you were referring to?

[polak]

Originally Posted by RyZ

To the bleeding heart Liberals around here, clearly not. It's sad because the problem is only going to get worse.

Thats true. It does not seem like attacks in the name of islam are on the decline.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Religion is the biggest problem with mankind.

If it wasn't religion it would just be something else. Political ideology, for example. We're a tribal species, it will never change.

[polak]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Sorry, who was the "we" you were referring to?

Non-Extremists. Muslim or not.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by RyZ

But muslims DO go out and bomb and murder by the tens of thousands at least. Why does that count for nothing?

Muslims living in Western democracies do not go out and bomb and murder by the tens of thousands. That's why a story like today's, where 12 people were killed, is so rare and shocking.