Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11

[Bobblehead]

I had never heard of this magazine before this, and I'd bet this is true for many people.

I think these extremists are about to learn about the Streisand Effect.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

There will be a serious lash back in Europe and specifically England, France and Germany against Immigration from Muslim nations after this.

For all we know it could be radicalized locals, we've seen a massive uptick on this as well. They were described as speaking perfect french, not that that's a clue to their origins.

These radicals want to stir up hatred against the local Muslim population to widen the gap and increase the anger. This will succeed.

Its not really about the moderate Muslims decrying these events, its more along the lines of increased security now, and looking at the Mosques where these nutbars attended.

This is a very tragic event. If people don't think that the French will retaliate in the harshest manner possible they're foolish.

The French are fairly ruthless when it comes to these things.

the far right is starting to rise again in Europe too. It's still very small obviously, but it's growing.

[Flabbibulin]

Haven't there been a large number of anti-immigration protests/riots in Germany in recent weeks?

[FlamesAddiction]

I actually think many of the caricatures they do are offensive from a racial and ethnic point of view. Obviously nothing justifies murder, but I don't see the way they illustrate ME muslims as any different than something like this: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/...-news/1.607891

Both are probably just as offensive IMO.. to me that is not even a question. Obviously the responses were quite different, which to me is the issue.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

What do you mean though? The number who actually commit these acts, or the number that condone and support?

Only did a quick search, but according to a 2007 Pew research poll on the use of violence against civilians in the name of Islam:
-64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.

Yeah no kidding. Unfortunately there is a sizeable percentage that are "bad apples" and from that percentage there are maybe a "very tiny percentage" of those bad apples that are rotten to the core. Problem is that once you are an apple you are more prone to rotting.

[White Out 403]

a few bad apples hey?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

a few bad apples hey?

#### it then, I say kill them all.


Load up the trucks it is time for a crusade!

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I actually think many of the caricatures they do are offensive from a racial and ethnic point of view. Obviously nothing justifies murder, but I don't see the way they illustrate ME muslims as any different than something like this: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/...-news/1.607891

Both are probably just as offensive IMO.. to me that is not even a question. Obviously the responses were quite different, which to me is the issue.

That's a timely post on your part in that today's massacre breeds fear in journalists and newsrooms so they print cartoons and take editorial slants that are "safe" from Islamic extremists but may attack other groups that are more tolerant.

Just a quick look around the web and i am not seeing a lot of press outrage at the incident, as opposed to what we saw after the Sony incident, which after all was a mere cyberattack with no lives lost.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I actually think many of the caricatures they do are offensive from a racial and ethnic point of view. Obviously nothing justifies murder, but I don't see the way they illustrate ME muslims as any different than something like this: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/...-news/1.607891

Both are probably just as offensive IMO.. to me that is not even a question. Obviously the responses were quite different, which to me is the issue.

It's Political Satire, if there wasn't a group that would be offended by their cartoons they wouldn't be saying anything.

[troutman]

Salman Rushdie condemns attack on Charlie Hebdo


http://www.englishpen.org/campaigns/...charlie-hebdo/

Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity. ‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion.’ Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

#### it then, I say kill them all.


Load up the trucks it is time for a crusade!

I don't think he's saying that at all, I think what he's saying is that to pretend that it is a few "bad apples" as opposed to a cultural problem is burying your head in the sand.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think that graph indicates that there is a huge cultural component as well as religious. There is quite a difference between muslims in Europe vs. Asia and the ME.

I would also bet just based on my own experience, that many of the muslims that support Sharia Law in Bosnia are immigrants or children of immigrants from the ME and central Asia (including Iran). Just like many other countries is Europe, they have imported radicals.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

a few bad apples hey?

That survey purposely excluded moderates who do not support Sharia law. Also, it doesn't list data for Muslims living in France or any other Western democracy. When evaluating the attitudes of French Muslims, I'm not really sure of the usefulness of a survey that only included self-identified extremists living in backwards countries.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think that graph indicates that there is a huge cultural component as well as religious. There is quite a difference between muslims in Europe vs. Asia and the ME.

I would also bet just based on my own experience, that many of the muslims that support Sharia Law in Bosnia are immigrants or children of immigrants from the ME and central Asia (including Iran). Just like many other countries is Europe, they have imported radicals.

It's a cultural problem because it's an education problem.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

#### it then, I say kill them all.


Load up the trucks it is time for a crusade!

Jokes I know, but as per the article posted on the previous page, the President of Egypt, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, has suggested that "Islam needed to reform itself". This crisis needs to be solved internally.

From an Islamic perspective, are the "radicals" the ones that support violence against civilians or those that oppose it??

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Jokes I know, but as per the article posted on the previous page, the President of Egypt, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, has suggested that "Islam needed to reform itself". This crisis needs to be solved internally.

From an Islamic perspective, are the "radicals" the ones that support violence against civilians or those that oppose it??

Sisi is the president, but he's also a general. From what I've read the army leadership is pretty secular.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

That survey purposely excluded moderates who do not support Sharia law. Also, it doesn't list data for Muslims living in France or any other Western democracy. When evaluating the attitudes of French Muslims, I'm not really sure of the usefulness of a survey that only included self-identified extremists living in backwards countries.

No, but the stat I included on the previous page only references Muslims living in France.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

That survey purposely excluded moderates who do not support Sharia law. Also, it doesn't list data for Muslims living in France or any other Western democracy. When evaluating the attitudes of French Muslims, I'm not really sure of the usefulness of a survey that only included self-identified extremists living in backwards countries.

the numbers from Turkey should be troubling to anyone. Turkey is not a backwards country.

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I don't think he's saying that at all, I think what he's saying is that to pretend that it is a few "bad apples" as opposed to a cultural problem is burying your head in the sand.

what he said. I dont get how you get can infer genocide from a simple graph.

[Ozy_Flame]

The French don't bend over backwards towards this. And it will only serve to antagonize the French population against muslim immigrants. If I've learned anything from French folks it's that they don't give a flying #### what anyone else thinks and they do what they feel like. This will not stop controversial journalism in the slightest in that country.

[Hack&Lube]

There's a graphic video on liveleak showing a part of the shooting. I can't bring myself around to watch it but from descriptions, the gunmen shoot down a policeman and walk up to him on the ground and taunt him. The policeman says: "it's okay boss" to indicate he's no-longer a threat to them but they shoot him in the head anyway.