[Rumour] Dreger: Hall is the face of the Oiler's culture problem. I expect him to be shopped

[davidbjordan]

i would have to think the best comparable recently is the bobby ryan deal (silfverberg, noesen + 1st who turned into be ritchie?)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

So what is his value in your eyes? You said he has "little trade value." What is a package or two that you see as fair value?

I didn't say that, and I've posted several times about the potential fair value.

[ForeverFlameFan]

If the Oilers were smart, they'd trade Hall for roster players/top end prospects than picks. They suck at drafting unless they are in the top 10.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

They suck at drafting unless they are in the top 10.

They suck at that too.

[V]

Hall is a project with extremely high potential. You put a guy in a locker room like LA's and I bet he turns into a superstar.

Jeff Carter is probably the perfect example. Extremely talented winger with locker room and defensive issues.

The fact that Columbus traded him for hot junk probably isn't because they're terrible at making trades, but more because very few GMs felt they could bring him up to his full potential, and the smaller market for him will definitely drive down the price.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by V

Hall is a project with extremely high potential. You put a guy in a locker room like LA's and I bet he turns into a superstar.

Jeff Carter is probably the perfect example. Extremely talented winger with locker room and defensive issues.

The fact that Columbus traded him for hot junk probably isn't because they're terrible at making trades, but more because very few GMs felt they could bring him up to his full potential, and the smaller market for him will definitely drive down the price.

A lot of the reason Columbus got little for him was

1. It was already public knowledge that Carter wanted out of Columbus. He pouted for a few weeks after being traded there from Philly.
2. Howson had an infatuation for Jack Johnson.

[GioforPM]

Hall may have potential, but I think that's a reason you get him, not a reason you pay more for him.

He needs a good coach who is more important than him. He needs good linemates, especially a good 2-way centre. I guess he should play for Detroit.

[1991 Canadian]

I think a very good comparable for Taylor Hall in terms of trade value, age, potential, etc... is Dion Phaneuf.

Sometimes you need to make a bad deal to make your team better (as contradictory as that sounds). Phaneuf is a better player than Stajan, but moving Phaneuf got a disruption out of the locker room and arguably opened up cap and roster space for Gio and Brodie to step up in the years to come.

Even though its arguably a step down in terms of talent, I think I straight up Hall for Shattenkirk, Josi, etc.. level player would be a good longterm deal for the Oilers.

This said, I don't think Taylor Hall will moved. It was bad enough that the Oilers have traded away their first wave of the rebuild (Gagner, Cogliano). I don't think their current management has the balls to do it again.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

I think a very good comparable for Taylor Hall in terms of trade value, age, potential, etc... is Dion Phaneuf.

Sometimes you need to make a bad deal to make your team better (as contradictory as that sounds). Phaneuf is a better player than Stajan, but moving Phaneuf got a disruption out of the locker room and arguably opened up cap and roster space for Gio and Brodie to step up in the years to come.

Even though its arguably a step down in terms of talent, I think I straight up Hall for Shattenkirk, Josi, etc.. level player would be a good longterm deal for the Oilers.

This said, I don't think Taylor Hall will moved. It was bad enough that the Oilers have traded away their first wave of the rebuild (Gagner, Cogliano). I don't think their current management has the balls to do it again.

I don't think you can legitimately connect Dion Phaneuf being traded to this team getting better. We got worse for quite a while ... and we're still worse. Not saying that Dion would have helped here, I think he's an overpaid pylon, but it's not a great analogy.

[Vinny01]

If this deal goes down at the draft and the Oilers pick in the top 2 it will be an exciting time for the fanbase.

I agree the Bobby Ryan deal is a good comparison. I still think the Islanders are the best fit in terms of pieces they can send out and the need for the player.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I didn't say that, and I've posted several times about the potential fair value.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I didn't conclude anything, other than that you made something up out of whole cloth (teams lining up for Hall). They may well do so, but there's no evidence of that at all. When they do, and when they offer something significant in return, then you'll have facts upon which to base your argument.

Your conclusion was that GMs don't care about the "little things". Based on the "fact" that teams are lining up for Hall. Which you made up.

Defence isn't a "little thing". Character isn't a "little thing". Right now, Hall has little trade value. He's a mediocre scorer this year, with huge defensive issues, injury problems and a big salary. He's a winger - which places him a notch below a centre or defenceman of similar ability.

So what is his value? What would be a reasonable example of a market value trade in your eyes?

[Erick Estrada]

I would think that Katz will fire Lowe and MacTavish before trading what is by far the Oilers best asset outside of maybe the #1 overall pick in the upcoming draft. There's simply no way the Oilers get the value back trading him that would satisfy the fans as the optics are going to be bad regardless of the return or even if the team benefits long term.

[GioforPM]

Damn - I was wrong - I did say it. It's not a defensible statement. I don't think any team will trade a top line player or a blue chip prospect from him in s all I can guess I meant.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hackey

You don't need to be privy to the same information as GMS to know where you personally see his value. I'm not asking you to guess the exact value or trade, just curious to see where exactly you see his value since you have such a strong opinion of where it is not.

Fine. I hate doing trade proposals so I'll be as general as possible.

I also dont want to try and think too much like the idiots up north because if I get into that frame of mind my business will start to fail and I'll have to go back to fighting hobos for cheese sandwiches to feed my family.

Assuming they've identified their needs as: centre and defence.

Taylor Hall should probably return a young, but established NHL centre that is currently playing on some deep team's 2nd or 3rd line but is trending upward, a prospect that may or may not be in the NHL but is projected as a top 4 defenceman, but likely in the 2/3 role more than the 1/2 role. And likely a second or third round pick.

But you can juggle all that. You get a slightly inferior centre then maybe that pick becomes a first or if the defensive prospect is a legit blue-chipper you cement the pick at a 3rd or if hes a proven defenceman you lose the pick altogether.

Thats what I see, which is why I believe they should be actively trying to move him. Because no matter how many points Hall scores, they're irrelevant. Last season he had 80 points and the Oilers still finished in 28th.

Take all that with a grain of salt because I dont know where the Oilers' priorities are other than 'not looking like idiots.'

And I'll tell you what my friends...that ship has sailed. Long, long ago.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There's simply no way the Oilers get the value back trading him that would satisfy the fans as the optics are going to be bad regardless of the return or even if the team benefits long term.

Letting fan optics influence your key roster decisions is dumb. If it affects the Oilers' decisions to move or not move Hall, that would only demonstrate the remarkable incompetence of the franchise.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Letting fan optics influence your key roster decisions is dumb. If it affects the Oilers' decisions to move or not move Hall, that would only demonstrate the remarkable incompetence of the franchise.

See the No Good thread for pure evidence of this already.

[stemit14]

I honestly have no idea what hall could return. I think NHL GMs would look at him as damaged goods and see the massive holes on his game... This would make them hesitant to empty the cupboards to get him. Plus he's a winger which in itself makes him less valuable than a center or dman.

I wouldn't give up a promising young d man like Jacob trouba or Seth jones for him. Would anyone think Anaheim would trade John Gibson for him?

[northcrunk]

I can't see teams overvaluing Hall as they will look at his numbers and character. I could see maybe 1 blue chip prospect, a NHL salary dump and 1 roster player + a 2nd or 3rd. I think it all depends on who the Oilers are targetting. Chances are though most GMs wont mortgage the future for Hall. Philly might.

[JohnnySkittles]

The most realistic return that I could imagine for Hall would be something like Reinhart + Strome or Nelson + Pulock

[Vinny01]

I don't see the Isles trading Brock Nelson he seems like an ideal #2 behind JT. Strome and Reinhart makes so much sense for both teams