[News] Canadiens place Rene Bourque on waivers. Upd: clears

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I think he has more talent for sure... better? I like cammy, but he was a minus player on a team who finished 25th and 27th who didn't warrant a decent proposal at the deadline. I'd argue his net effect on the team was minimal if not negative. Hindsight being 20/20, i'd rather have the 2nd round pick and compliance buyout of Bourque. Which in my mind nullifies the argument that this was a "win" trade by the flames.

We did snag Ramo and have Culkin instead of the 2nd. Hindsight it was a bad move because the team went full rebuild but in terms of Feasters moves to try and improve the team via trade this was a good one.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ramo played really well the 2nd half of last season and in his first starts here. A decent backup > unknown 2nd round pick.

Actually decent backups often go for 3rd-5th round picks, though I'd argue Ramo is far more than just a decent backup. For a 1B goalie, a 2nd rounder has been the going rate for years... fair draw, everyone wins.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Actually decent backups often go for 3rd-5th round picks, though I'd argue Ramo is far more than just a decent backup. For a 1B goalie, a 2nd rounder has been the going rate for years... fair draw, everyone wins.

I agree. At the time of the trade, Ramo was at best a backup though.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by gioforpm

i agree. At the time of the trade, ramo was the best goalie not in the nhl.

fyp.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

fyp.

Hah

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And with a goalie in the mix - we won't know for another 7 years.
Ignoring players selected with picks in play the deal looks like a win for the Flames.

Button had Fucale ranked in the top ten at one time in his draft year and if my memory is right, because of Button's connection with the Flames, some feared we'd pick him in the first round. I wouldn't have liked it much but I believe he'll be our #1 goalie in the coming Junior Worlds, so not a terrible pick. About his stats, I don't think junior stats mean too much for goalies.

"I have always thought of Fucale as an elite goaltender but that point was driven home to me as I watched him on Friday night in Baie Comeau against a very good Drakkar team," Button told TSN.ca. "He performs at the most critical times and affords his team the opportunity to emerge victorious."

http://www2.tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=415242

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I seem to recall a few posters being upset the Flames gave up Holland in that trade.

Yep, I was definitely one of them that was sad to see Holland included in that trade (though in all honesty, I can't quite remember how much so), it doesn't appear he will be much of a player.

He did get a cup of coffee last year in Montreal (5 games - which I guess gives him more NHL experience than the majority of other picks the Flames selected that year), but stat-watching in the AHL doesn't show him to be a scorer at the pro-level, though he may be a good role-player or something. Either way, with hindsight, doesn't appear the Flames lost out on him, and he would have been absolutely buried in the depth chart now.

Off-topic, I still really like that draft for the Flames (2010), although no players from that draft have yet to solidify themselves as NHL'ers. Reinhart (constantly improving and on the cusp I think), Leach (looked like a decent D-man, but fizzled out and the Flames chose not to offer him a contract), Ramage (been getting better, former captain of Team USA), Arnold (still think he will be an NHL'er - a great bottom 6 guy), Ferland (I still think will become a fan-favorite on the Flames), the Karlsson trade -AKA "The Calgary Tower" (was great the first season and many fans were applauding the fact that Calgary FINALLY had a back-up that could win a game that first season, but seemed worse in the 2nd season and was traded away and was pushed out of the NHL), and lastly Holland who put up great stats, but in hindsight was probably a complimentary linemate at best to the two over-agers on his line.

Back on topic, I wonder if Bourque gets traded now that he cleared with some salary retention and/or some sweetener in the mix. Obviously Montreal shopped him around before placing him on waivers without interest, but I wonder if there were a few teams that were interested if Montreal was willing to retain some salary.

Bourque at 1.7 million or so sure looks a bit more attractive in the NHL I would say, though unless there is a sweetener involved (and probably without salary retention) I would not want him back on the Flames.

MTL
Setoguchi (cap relief, allows Seto to try and keep his NHL career going)

CGY
Bourque
Fucale (wouldn't that be hilarious, and Hartley did love the kid) or Tinordi or other A-Class prospect or 1st

That would make it grudgingly palatable to me.

[Locke]

Right. I forgot that theres no re-entry waivers anymore.

[dammage79]

I'd rather have Setoguchi than have Bourque return.

I was the happiest of folk when Bourque got moved to bring Cammy back. It was a such a happy day. I'd personally like to keep Bourque as far from this team as possible.

[djsFlames]

Wait, people were actually discussing whether we should pick him up?

I liked Borkie back in the day but times have changed.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I think he has more talent for sure... better? I like cammy, but he was a minus player on a team who finished 25th and 27th who didn't warrant a decent proposal at the deadline. I'd argue his net effect on the team was minimal if not negative. Hindsight being 20/20, i'd rather have the 2nd round pick and compliance buyout of Bourque. Which in my mind nullifies the argument that this was a "win" trade by the flames.

Assumes a compliance buyout was something the Flames would do. Not sure that's the case. Too many ifs and assumptions

[Locke]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Wait, people were actually discussing whether we should pick him up?

I liked Borkie back in the day but times have changed.

No Way! We need to get the kids in the lineup.

We're going to have enough problems when Colborne/Backlund/Raymond get back let alone Seto and Ferland.

The time for reclamation projects is long gone and done for the Flames right now. At the moment they may even be regretting the Seto contract.

[wretched34]

I'd be all over trading Seto to MTL for Bourque, and a 1st or 2nd round pick, or higher end D prospect. Since he's cleared waivers, you assign him to Addy, and then loan him to another AHL team, or see if the demotion lights a fire under his A$$, if he puts up ridiculous points in the AHL, I'm sure you could flip him for a 3rd or 4th after Christmas if you retain a little more salary...

Essentially Setoguchi and a little retained salary for a season (Bourque's) for a first or second round pick, or high end D prospect, + a 3rd or 4th round pick. That's a hell of a return on Seto.

And Bourque never puts on a Calgary Flames jersey.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by wretched34

I'd be all over trading Seto to MTL for Bourque, and a 1st or 2nd round pick, or higher end D prospect. Since he's cleared waivers, you assign him to Addy, and then loan him to another AHL team, or see if the demotion lights a fire under his A$$, if he puts up ridiculous points in the AHL, I'm sure you could flip him for a 3rd or 4th after Christmas if you retain a little more salary...

Essentially Setoguchi and a little retained salary for a season (Bourque's) for a first or second round pick, or high end D prospect, + a 3rd or 4th round pick. That's a hell of a return on Seto.

And Bourque never puts on a Calgary Flames jersey.

Teams don't give up 1st round picks to unload bad contracts. It simply doesn't happen. I realize Feaster and a lot of fans think that this was once a possibility but GM's have shown absolutely no appetite for this kind of thing.

[Sylvanfan]

Giving Bouquet a 6 year contract was the day I was convinced that Sutter had jumped the Shark as GM. No way players of Bourques ilk ever should get a contract for more than 4 years. Even a 4 year term is pushing it on a guy like Rene Bourque.

Stay away from this guy. Getting away from the term of his contract was one of Feasters best moves.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Teams don't give up 1st round picks to unload bad contracts. It simply doesn't happen. I realize Feaster and a lot of fans think that this was once a possibility but GM's have shown absolutely no appetite for this kind of thing.

Agreed, a 1st in that package is a pipe dream, which is why I also said a second or D prospect.
The Habs are obviously done with Bourque, but they are eating a lot of cap that they don't really have if they want to shore up by the deadline for a playoff run.
If they see Value in Seto, and feel he can be a serviceable 3rd or 4th liner, maybe they'd be willing to pay a little more in assetts if the Flames are willing to eat all of Bourque's cap hit. We have the cap room to do so. $2.58M+ in cap savings could be worth a lot to them.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Assumes a compliance buyout was something the Flames would do. Not sure that's the case. Too many ifs and assumptions

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility though given they bought out O'brien and openly spoke about taking on bad contracts for picks.
I do actually agree though, too many assumptions... I was only trying to make a point about this trade not necessarily being a "Win" for the flames. It kind of veered off course...
But I stand by my original point, it's way too early to call this a win. We need to see what happens with Fucale and Culkin.

[Robbob]

Rumour has it that the Oilers are waiting for him to be recalled so they can get him at half the cap hit. You know because the oilers are really NO GOOD at this whole CBA thing.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Agreed, a 1st in that package is a pipe dream, which is why I also said a second or D prospect.
The Habs are obviously done with Bourque, but they are eating a lot of cap that they don't really have if they want to shore up by the deadline for a playoff run.
If they see Value in Seto, and feel he can be a serviceable 3rd or 4th liner, maybe they'd be willing to pay a little more in assetts if the Flames are willing to eat all of Bourque's cap hit. We have the cap room to do so. $2.58M+ in cap savings could be worth a lot to them.

do the Habs really need the cap room this season? cap geek projects them able to add $17.8 million in salary at the trade deadline.

that should be more than enough to shore up any roster


it arguably only becomes a problem next season when they need to re-sign some of their key RFAs (Galchenyuk and Gallagher) and decide to go after some big name UFAs, but that is a problem for the off season