[News] Update: Flames recall Sven Baertschi. Colborne on IR.

[automaton 3]

I'm not worried at all about Sven.

The work ethic is there, the skills are there, it sounds like fitness is there - it seems to be confidence where he is lacking.

Hartley's track record of getting the most out of players is pretty good, I think we'll see Sven turn a corner soon.

[heep223]

nm

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Gaudreau-Monahan-Poirier and Granlund-Bennet-Baertschi

[GioforPM]

I don't think he's done as an NHLer. I also don't think he will be the wunderkind some folks here think he is (or hope he will be). The problem he faces is that he still can't play big minutes against good players.

BTW, for those who complained that Setoguchi was on the PP and not him, he had no PP practice time. You'd mess up assignments if you just throw him out there. And he's not going to do Setoguchi's role on the PP - he'd probably be in JG's spot on the ice.

[Flames89]

In an attempt to keep Sven stuff in Sven threads ...

He continues to not look great at all. He seems to have slowed down considerably. Maybe his disappointment have affected his training or his head is keeping from charging in and potentially getting out of position. But right now I see nothing to suggest this guy is an NHL player, and as another poster mentioned in another thread, I have not seen NHL-calibre play from him in over a year.
I believe a player can excel with any linemates (or at least not McGrattan and Westgarth, or something similar). Sven is getting time with Seto and Byron (who must be wondering what he did to deserve playing with those guys ... j/k)

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Flames89

In an attempt to keep Sven stuff in Sven threads ...

He continues to not look great at all. He seems to have slowed down considerably. Maybe his disappointment have affected his training or his head is keeping from charging in and potentially getting out of position. But right now I see nothing to suggest this guy is an NHL player, and as another poster mentioned in another thread, I have not seen NHL-calibre play from him in over a year.
I believe a player can excel with any linemates (or at least not McGrattan and Westgarth, or something similar). Sven is getting time with Seto and Byron (who must be wondering what he did to deserve playing with those guys ... j/k)

He's tip toeing around IMO...he needs some rabid dog venom....thumbtack in the hockey pants....the tools are there but he is scared/nervous to just open the toolbox and dump it on the floor.

[Finger Cookin]

There should be no rush to make any move with Sven this season, IMO. There's many games left to be played. We can still send him down and recall him as often as we like without waiver exposure. We have three UFAs coming up this off-season, all forwards. He should get the rest of this year, wherever he plays, and next training camp to make his case still. He's waiver eligible at the beginning of next season, and that's the time he's hopefully made the decision for management, or when they have to make a decision.

[Ozy_Flame]

Agreed with Finger Cookin'. Let's give him the full year to define himself as a player, and make use of his waiver exemption where possible. I would say by the time he's 23, we should be able to determine where he goes.

I am still of the opinion that he is playing way too tentative, and needs to loosen up. There's still time left for him. Worse comes to worse, we swap him with a player somewhere else that both need a change of scenery. Our prospect depth is so good right now I don't think we're in any rush to flip him.

[bubbsy]

my biggest concern with sven, is i'm not clear, based on watching him play the handful of games with the big club (mind you), what exact attributes make him capable of being an offensively dynamic player.

- speed: doesn't seem to have elite quickness, first step ,etc
- size/strength: was always considered a guy who would have to get stronger due to his lack of size and strength. however, i don't think his offensive game came from being a physical player
- dangles: i don't recall any real open ice moves or him taking on anyone 1 on1 and succeed at all
- vision: i found that last year, even when doing well, there was a lot of "blindly center the puck hoping it gets there" type plays, rather than creative playmaking
- IQ: maybe, but if this were the case, we'd see him getting more opportunities based on being at the right place at the right time.

granted, this year, he hasn't been provided much time to showcase himself in any of the above ways.

There's somethign to be said about a player having the confidence in his game to do well, as well as the coaches showing the player their trust, and letting him go out, get playing time with the growing pains that may come with that (ie. mistakes). However, at some point i think it's fair to look at the kid and say you've had your opportunities in the past, the team is opening up windows of opportunities (may be somewhat limited until he earns it) and it's on him to use whatever exposure he gets to go out and prove himself.

i'm all for being patient and all, but at somepoint soon, he's just going to have to do something to prove he belongs, otherwise, not sure there's a place for him in the organization.

[GioforPM]

We can't be in a rush to flip him - I don't think we'd get much of anything in return.

[timbit]

Not sure what to think but at this point it looks like he has a lack of courage and /or confidence.

He needs to be first to pucks in races and win more puck battles. He hardly ever touches the puck.

At the moment, and things can change in a hurry, Sven is not close to being on the same level as Gaudreau, Granlund, and Jouris. We shall see on Ferland.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I firmly believe that he would have been an NHL regular by now had he not played in the lockout and the first third of the 13/14 season. We rushed him. Now, we can't be in a rush to believe he is a bust. Who knows, maybe we have another Backlund-like story.

[darthma]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Sven was invisible for the most part. If I wasn't following him specifically to see how he was performing, I wouldn't have noticed him at all except for that one scoring chance he had.

A few negative things did stand out to me:
- He looked slow out there. Hopefully it was just fatigue, but he was definitely slow.
- He continually lost puck battles. Over and over. Gaudreau finds a way to win some, not necessarily being physical, but being smart. Unless I lost sight of Baertschi while he was on the ice, I didn't see a single instance of him winning a battle.

Things I noticed that were positive:
- He seemed to have better defensive positioning than I last remember him. Seemed to go in more or less the right spots.
- Made a few nice passes, and definitely had great positioning in the offensive zone.

What I liked about Hartley is that he threw Baertschi out on a defensive zone faceoff when Montreal was pushing. He either trusted Baertschi out there, or wanted to test/push him. He did alright - didn't win a puck battle, but he tried.

It was just one game, and you have to wonder if he was overly-tired. Waiting to see how he does in the next game in terms of speed. He is not a physical guy and will never be, but he won't make it in the NHL if he isn't quick, and if he doesn't find a way to win puck battles. I don't expect to see much of him in the NHL this season. Next season is when the Flames will be forced to play him, and hopefully by then he will be a much more rounded player and will find ways to be effective in every zone.

Nobody can argue that Gaudreau isn't playing decent defensively. Or Jooris. It is not ok to have Baertschi here in the NHL when he can't play adequately either. There is a certain threshold I think that he needs to be at before he can become a player who finishes developing in the NHL, and last night's game showed that he wasn't quite there. Hopefully in however many games he does have left he does show that he has met or surpassed that threshold, and finds a way to make it impossible to send him down. He may have been tired, or he may take a few games to just 'get used to it again'. However, it is also disappointing in a way because you see rookies come in and have this incredible 'jump' in their games out of pure adrenalin and excitement - I didn't see that in Baertschi's game. Small sample size anyways, so let's see what Sven brings the next game or two.

I think anyone that is stating that he is being mishandled is wrong - he isn't NHL-caliber from what I saw yesterday and last season. There is zero reason to believe Hartley dislikes him, or even if he does, that he doesn't want Baertschi to succeed. This organization desperately wants this kid to succeed.

I think anyone that is saying he is busting is also wrong - this kid is super-talented and an incredibly hard-working player. Some players just take longer to develop, and I believe Feaster's mishandling of him last year was an issue that he is only starting to get over from a mental standpoint, and his body was simply not ready for the NHL (speed, strength) and the injuries were a bit concerning because I don't think he had adjusted his play to how he can succeed in the NHL.

All I see are excuses. EXCUSES!!! BOO BOOOOOO SEND HIM TO THE FARM!!!!

It's to the point here where you point out a missed play and people think you're on the 'send Baertschi packing' bandwagon - that we don't want him to succeed, that we pretty much hate him and everything he stands for.

We all want him to succeed... (I hope). But I really hope he shows us something to be excited about soon. For the mean time, I'll continue to drool over Gaudreau and Jooris going nuts, and yes, to watch Baertschi closely.

[PeteMoss]

I would just like him to show some energy to look like he wants to be up in the NHL. Not sure the status of Ferland obviously, but wouldn't shock me if Poirier is up soon if he has another few good games and Sven is back down - just to give Poirier a little taste of the NHL while guys get healthy.

[Calgary4LIfe]

doublepost somehow.

[FlameZilla]

Sven looks ok to me. I know he's not scoring but I feel like he's trying & working hard out there. He's more physical along the boards than he used to be and I think it has to click for him eventually... doesn't it?

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Agreed with Finger Cookin'. Let's give him the full year to define himself as a player, and make use of his waiver exemption where possible. I would say by the time he's 23, we should be able to determine where he goes.

Taking this idea a step further, we certainly have 10 forwards who would be considered locks for next season (barring trades): Hudler, Jones, Raymond, Stajan, Backlund, Colborne, Bollig, Monahan, Gaudreau, and Bouma.

The other three spots on the roster will be contested for by the following: Jooris, Baertschi, Granlund, Ferland, Hanowski, and Reinhart. There could certainly be more players in the mix, but I highlight these prospects because of waiver considerations. All must clear waivers at the beginning of next season if they don't make the team - with the exception of Jooris, on the condition that he plays fewer than 60 regular season games this season. I would suggest that it is in the Flames best interests to ensure he does not exceed 60 games this season to retain flexibility.

So you have 3 spots and 5 forwards to consider. You have possibly even fewer spots if other prospects (Jooris, Bennett, Knight, Klimchuk, Poirier, Arnold, Agostino) have good camps next season, or impress during AHL/call-up play this season.

Of the five guys where a decision will be forced, I would suggest the pecking order is as follows:

1) Granlund
2) Ferland
3) Baertschi
4) Reinhart
5) Hanowski

So Sven is very much on the bubble as it stands right now. Hopefully the rest of this season helps clarify what to do with him.

[Ozy_Flame]

Sam Bennett is definitely in the mix next year too.

[sec304]

Does anyone know if there's an injury updates thread?

This clearly isn't the thread for that, lol

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Taking this idea a step further, we certainly have 10 forwards who would be considered locks for next season (barring trades): Hudler, Jones, Raymond, Stajan, Backlund, Colborne, Bollig, Monahan, Gaudreau, and Bouma.

The other three spots on the roster will be contested for by the following: Jooris, Baertschi, Granlund, Ferland, Hanowski, and Reinhart.

What happened to GlenX in your scenario? He walk?