[News] Update: Flames recall Sven Baertschi. Colborne on IR.

[mile]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Sven was invisible for the most part. If I wasn't following him specifically to see how he was performing, I wouldn't have noticed him at all except for that one scoring chance he had.

A few negative things did stand out to me:
- He looked slow out there. Hopefully it was just fatigue, but he was definitely slow.
- He continually lost puck battles. Over and over. Gaudreau finds a way to win some, not necessarily being physical, but being smart. Unless I lost sight of Baertschi while he was on the ice, I didn't see a single instance of him winning a battle.

Yeah, every time the puck was contested along the boards the opposing player came away with the puck. I feel like Sven is trying but it isn't working.

The speed is also another concern. Hartley wants his players to be able to skate and Sven looked subpar there last night, although it may be fatigue.

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think anyone that is stating that he is being mishandled is wrong - he isn't NHL-caliber from what I saw yesterday and last season. There is zero reason to believe Hartley dislikes him, or even if he does, that he doesn't want Baertschi to succeed. This organization desperately wants this kid to succeed.

Sven definitely has the backing of Treliving - he is a supporter of Sven, and while I like to believe Hartley is too, I just get the sense Hartley isn't as enthused about him, despite the positive things he has said about him. I watched Hartley's pre-game interview yesterday and he didn't seem as jovial talking about Sven as he has about his other players. Hartley was saying nice things about Sven, but it didn't seem genuine to me. I hope I'm wrong about this though.

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think anyone that is saying he is busting is also wrong - this kid is super-talented and an incredibly hard-working player. Some players just take longer to develop, and I believe Feaster's mishandling of him last year was an issue that he is only starting to get over from a mental standpoint, and his body was simply not ready for the NHL (speed, strength) and the injuries were a bit concerning because I don't think he had adjusted his play to how he can succeed in the NHL.

I disagree with most about this season being a make or break season for Sven. He needs to be in the AHL for at least half a season this year, maybe even a full one. He is still a work in progress - Byron is a very good example of a player we've had who has had to put in 3/4 seasons in the AHL before he was ready. This mentality that he HAS to make it his season is something he needs to forget about, and he needs to focus on developing at his own pace.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yeah, I don't buy that it's too early to talk about whether Baertschi will make it in the NHL. When will it be the right time - when he's 25 and playing in Switzerland?

Any other callup we'd be talking about his game, so why not Sven. Plus, when the callup was announced there were a fair number of predictions or expressions of hope for his play. so how did that turn out? It's a fair discussion.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Kind of hard to notice Sven last night when Setoguchi continually handles the puck like it is a hand grenade. What a play killer that guy is.

Anytime Sven did get the puck he looked confident with it. The D and Byron continually passed the puck to Setoguchi's side when they would be breaking up the ice. I'm not sure if Setoguchi has completed more then three clean passes all season.

How anybody can pretend to critique what Baertschi's game is all about from viewing last nights game is totally beyond me.

Why not? This isn't exactly the first time people have seen Sven. Also, most of the negative critiques (including mine) included caveats such as "just one game" and "might be tired".

Also, offensive ability from Sven has never been an issue. Nobody is talking about how disappointing Sven looked offensively. What is being discussed was how slow he seemed out there, how he lost puck battles (both of which can be attributed to fatigue) and how he was unnoticeable for the most part.

When are we allowed to critique the kid's game? 2 games? 10 games? A full season? As long as people understand that every player has bad games and great games (Jarome had bad games, and Boyd had great games for instance), and not make definitive statements like "he is going to be a bust", "career AHL'er", "Future Euro-star" and likewise don't start saying "Future NHL superstar", then it is fine to critique anyone's game, regardless of sample sizes, as long as you keep those small sample sizes in mind.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by mile

I disagree with most about this season being a make or break season for Sven. He needs to be in the AHL for at least half a season this year, maybe even a full one. He is still a work in progress - Byron is a very good example of a player we've had who has had to put in 3/4 seasons in the AHL before he was ready. This mentality that he HAS to make it his season is something he needs to forget about, and he needs to focus on developing at his own pace.

I would also disagree with that statement that this is a make it or break it season for Sven. I do, however, worry about his contract negotiations (his ELC expires this season according to capgeek). I do worry about him being waiver-eligible next season as well. I would, however, expect the Flames to invest a good half-season on Sven staying in the NHL, and making a trade if they can't justify keeping him up based on his performance (or at least, his development). So, next year I do see it as his 'make it or break it' season, but agreed that it is not this one.

Being waiver-eligible is often the cut-off for these higher draft picks that garnered a lot of attention league-wide. There will always be a GM or two out there that will try and pick-up a young possible superstar who may have just needed a change of scenery. Next season is when the Flames will be forced to make a decision - keep him up, trade him (if possible), expose him to waivers.

This is, of course, all dependent on how Sven performs from now until at least the mid-point of next season I think. I don't think they will give up on him even if he doesn't look NHL-ready to start next season, but at some point IF he is still not performing well, then that is when the decision becomes a tough one. I just really hope that isn't the case, and he just becomes a contributing fixture in our top 6 or even top 9.

[1stLand]

I think Sven is done as a Professional Hockey Player.

Since 2011, he has regressed as a Player.

Being an NHL Hockey involves Mental Fortuity and we have seen Sven crumble when faced with adversity, rather than rise above it.

He hasn't improved as a hockey player at all. He is very average and is being surpassed by players younger or the same age as him.

I don't think the Flames brass managed him or utilized him properly in his first full season which ultimately led to him being demoted to the AHL.

A few games I watched early in the season saw me very impressed with Sven everytime he was on the ice. However, the coaching staff refused to give him good quality icetime or powerplay time, because we had players like Mr. Iginla.

Perhaps if the Flames were in rebuild mode a year earlier and had traded their old tired players, Sven would have had a better opportunity to find his groove.

I see the Flames lineup as being crowded with more promising young stars now such as:
- Gaudreau
- Jooris
- Monahan
- Jooris
- Granlund
- Poirier
- Bennett

Perhaps its time to trade Sven (I know his trade value will be little or nothing) to a team that will give him a chance.

At that point, Sven has no more excuses.

[heep223]

More and more I find myself trying to make excuses to justify his mediocre play. It's not a good feeling. That's all I know and I really hope he pans out.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by BowIsland

Sven's game didn't do much for me. Wasn't very noticeable. His ceiling certainly doesn't appear to be what I once thought. Hopefully he figures it out but I don't think it is going to be in Calgary.

His game in Portland was a lot like that, you seemed to be that player that you hardly noticed but when you look at the score sheet after he had 2-3 points.

He never had outstanding physical gifts, but he was creative, great vision and his greatest strength was running the PP.

He isn't getting PP time and that is hurting his production, but I do think a year in the AHL and hopefully with Granlund staying up, he will be the guy and be on the 1st PP unit and given a chance to go out make mistakes, and learn from them rather then being benched for them.

When Backlund was benched last season he talked to I think it was his old coach/therapist and discovered that he was playing in a way that he was afraid to make mistakes, rather then to make plays. I think this is the way Baertschi is playing right now and it was something I was hoping he would be able to work on in the AHL rather then in the spotlight of the NHL.

I am still very confident that it will eventually just click with Sven, and he will contribute to this team. I don't think you will see a steady progression I think one day it is just going to click and he will be back, I just don't know when that will be.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

I think Sven is done as a Professional Hockey Player.


I see the Flames lineup as being crowded with more promising young stars now such as:
- Gaudreau
- Jooris
- Monahan
- Jooris
- Granlund
- Poirier
- Bennett

Perhaps its time to trade Sven (I know his trade value will be little or nothing) to a team that will give him a chance.

At that point, Sven has no more excuses.

1) he just turned 22 don't be so dramatic, he isn't done by any stretch.

2) You listed Jooris twice, and he is probably a third liner. You can still have lines of Gaudreau-Monahan-Poirier and Granlund-Bennet-Baertschi if he plays like he can there will be a spot for him. If he doesn't oh well we have the guys you listed plus Klimchuck/Knight/Reinhart/Jankowski that could hit and take his spot.

[Ashasx]

Done as a professional hockey player after 10 minutes of ice time.

RIP in peace Sven Baertschi

[ComixZone]

I don't understand why some fans have blood out for a first round pick.

We should be cheering this guy on. If you're a fan of the team - the TEAM - you should want all of our draft picks to succeed. There's a difference between critiquing and piling on. The negativity some people are showing towards Sven baffles me. Or those who are drawing the line between fans by calling others "Sven-fanboys" etc.,.

We should all be Sven-fanboys. He's a Flame.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

I think Sven is done as a Professional Hockey Player.

Many people here thought Backs was going to be a bust, look how that turned out.

[ForeverFlameFan]

It's amazing at how little of patience some of you posters have on here. He just turned 22.

[SeanCharles]

This is my take on his whole debacle:

-Sven is scrutinized to a far greater extent than any other prospect or young player within this organization and it's not even close.

-Sven played 10mins of ice time with long stretches of not playing due to the amount of special teams play and him not being involved in it.

-Sven was playing with Byron and Setoguchi aka lower on the depth chart players.

-Sven played in the AHL the night before and was likely fatigued and when you don't play much in a game it really diminishes adrenaline from helping you overcome that fatigue.

-Sven is playing the way Backlund was under Brent Sutter - extremely tentative. He is not playing with confidence and it is affecting his on ice results.

-Sven is 21 and Granlund, Johnny, and Wotherspoon are in the midst of establishing themselves as NHLers aka he is right there with the rest of his draft class (a good one for us).

-His time isn't running out. He worked on his flaws and received praise for it. He just needs that shot of confidence to prove to himself that playing this way does make him a better player, both offensively and defensively.

Give the kid a break he has shown he has offensive skills to play in the NHL and he's bulked up so he's not going to end up like Boyd. His defensive play has improved and he is learning to be a pro. He is learning the ins and outs of mental toughness so give him some time, more than 1 game this season, to prove his worth..

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Many people here thought Backs was going to be a bust, look how that turned out.

Do you mean frequently injured?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't understand why some fans have blood out for a first round pick.

We should be cheering this guy on. If you're a fan of the team - the TEAM - you should want all of our draft picks to succeed. There's a difference between critiquing and piling on. The negativity some people are showing towards Sven baffles me. Or those who are drawing the line between fans by calling others "Sven-fanboys" etc.,.

We should all be Sven-fanboys. He's a Flame.

Some people post on these boards to express what they hope will happen. Some post to express what they think will happen. There's often friction between the two approaches. If that wasn't the case, this would be a pretty boring forum.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I completely agree with the sentiments on here preaching patience with Sven, far too early to be writing off or anything like that. Very young, lots of time, he will develop at his own pace, and time will tell what that nets him. I also agree that he's learning his mental toughness.

(Total conjecture on my part in this paragraph) I believe he's very much struggling with the fact that in his head he "made it" with that brief 5 game stint years ago when got the first call up and lit it up. Wrongly, he assumed he was now a permanent NHL player and has struggled with wrapping his head around the fact that he is still in competition with some of his peers to earn a spot. It's got to be the toughest thing for any young guy to do, get over that hurdle of being an every day NHL player, and a huge weight lifted when it gets removed and you can simply focus on getting better to help the team, not just your survival. While I feel he likely only has himself to blame for this, the mental barrier of having that huge task put back in front of you after you thought you removed it already is likely very hard.

What I really think Sven has to show he can do is being able to play HIS game (putting up points etc..) while also playing the REST of the game at an acceptable NHL level. So far, he's proved he can do one or the other, but any offensive NHL player needs to do both. This is the phenomenon that the "Sven fanboys" will call the Flames trying to "change his game". But it's not. It's not that they want to make him a defensive specialist, it's that they need him to maintain a certain level of acceptability in his game on the back end or away from the puck, a minimum standard so to speak that all players must maintain. Clearly, Sven can put up points, if he just focuses on putting up points and neglects the rest of the game. When asked to take care of the rest, he fails to put up points, which he must do to be an effective player. Hopefully what he will develop into the player he needs to be, one that meets the minimum requirements and puts up points. It's what his peers that have had success in their call ups are doing and why they are sticking. Still a lot of time for him to do it though, and we just need to be patient.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

This is my take on his whole debacle:

-Sven is scrutinized to a far greater extent than any other prospect or young player within this organization and it's not even close.

-Sven played 10mins of ice time with long stretches of not playing due to the amount of special teams play and him not being involved in it.

-Sven was playing with Byron and Setoguchi aka lower on the depth chart players.

-Sven played in the AHL the night before and was likely fatigued and when you don't play much in a game it really diminishes adrenaline from helping you overcome that fatigue.

-Sven is playing the way Backlund was under Brent Sutter - extremely tentative. He is not playing with confidence and it is affecting his on ice results.

-Sven is 21 and Granlund, Johnny, and Wotherspoon are in the midst of establishing themselves as NHLers aka he is right there with the rest of his draft class (a good one for us).

-His time isn't running out. He worked on his flaws and received praise for it. He just needs that shot of confidence to prove to himself that playing this way does make him a better player, both offensively and defensively.

Give the kid a break he has shown he has offensive skills to play in the NHL and he's bulked up so he's not going to end up like Boyd. His defensive play has improved and he is learning to be a pro. He is learning the ins and outs of mental toughness so give him some time, more than 1 game this season, to prove his worth..

Great post. Granlund, Gaudreau, Ferland and Jooris are all the same age or older and they are just starting. It does lend credence to the idea that Sven may have been rushed and is now needing to catch up.

[burn_this_city]

Sven maybe 22, but in dog years like 154, that's post apex.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't understand why some fans have blood out for a first round pick.

We should be cheering this guy on. If you're a fan of the team - the TEAM - you should want all of our draft picks to succeed. There's a difference between critiquing and piling on. The negativity some people are showing towards Sven baffles me. Or those who are drawing the line between fans by calling others "Sven-fanboys" etc.,.

We should all be Sven-fanboys. He's a Flame.

Sounds like Setoguchi. First round pick, he's a Flame.

[bax]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

I think Sven is done as a Professional Hockey Player.

Since 2011, he has regressed as a Player.

Being an NHL Hockey involves Mental Fortuity and we have seen Sven crumble when faced with adversity, rather than rise above it.

He hasn't improved as a hockey player at all. He is very average and is being surpassed by players younger or the same age as him.

I don't think the Flames brass managed him or utilized him properly in his first full season which ultimately led to him being demoted to the AHL.

A few games I watched early in the season saw me very impressed with Sven everytime he was on the ice. However, the coaching staff refused to give him good quality icetime or powerplay time, because we had players like Mr. Iginla.

Perhaps if the Flames were in rebuild mode a year earlier and had traded their old tired players, Sven would have had a better opportunity to find his groove.

I see the Flames lineup as being crowded with more promising young stars now such as:
- Gaudreau
- Jooris
- Monahan
- Jooris
- Granlund
- Poirier
- Bennett

Perhaps its time to trade Sven (I know his trade value will be little or nothing) to a team that will give him a chance.

At that point, Sven has no more excuses.

This post is way too over dramatic. Sven is right on the cusp of the NHL just like everyone else that the Flames drafted that year (except for Brossoit). Yes, things have not gone very smoothly for him over the past year, but to say that he is done as a professional hockey player?

Come on. Also, keep in mind that he is 2 years younger than Jooris. Sven may never be the top line talent that we all hoped, but I am a firm believer that he will be a solid NHL player.