[News] Update: Flames recall Sven Baertschi. Colborne on IR.

[stemit14]

Would love for baertschi to get reunited with Monahan again. Doubt that will happen too soon though cause glencross-Monahan-jones looked good last night.

[jaginla]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Or you could...do work.

It's nice to give yourself a break reading the thread every once in a while

[JJ1532]

I can't believe there is an in depth discussion of how Sven did in 1 game where he played 10 minutes. Is it because the likes of Granlund, Jooris and Johnny did better last night, or did people actually expect Sven to come almost straight from Addy and rip it up?

People do love judging a prospect far too quickly. This is reminiscent of the Johnny development thread. Lets see how Sven looks off the back of this road trip when, you know, he's actually had some time to show what he can or can't do.

[TjRhythmic]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Thought he was just okay.

Hard to get in rhythm when you are going long periods without a shift due to not seeing the ice on the PP or PK.

One thing that is a little concerning to me is his speed, he just doesn't seem to have the speed a player like him needs in the NHL but that could have just been nerves and fatigue last night.

I mentioned it in the PGT, but I am willing to give him a pass this game. He played the night before then sat in a car for 3 hours driving to Montreal. Tough to get your legs back the next day when you miss that recovery routine after games... probably had a case of the lead legs.

I think the Tuesday and Thursday games we'll see Sven play a lot better, with a little more jump.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Some people need to check their expectations in being able to judge his play after one game.

He played in the AHL the night before and got to Montreal at 2am the day of the Falmes-Habs game. That's in addition to likely having some nerves about being back in the show.

Way too small a sample size for anyone to be judging his game.

Most people here are familiar with the player, for a lot of people its not just judging him on a small sample size.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Most people here are familiar with the player, for a lot of people its not just judging him on a small sample size.

Which is why that post started with "some people".

There are definitely "some people" making way too much of one game under the aforementioned circumstances.

[dying4acup]

Ideal scenario would be for Sven to be brought along slowly and eased into situations like Monahan. And Johnny Hockey. Move up when you can show success at the last level.

3G in 5gp ruined all that. Feaster gifting a job last summer didn't help. Honestly I believe that if Sven started last fall in the AHL, he'd be better off.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

Ideal scenario would be for Sven to be brought along slowly and eased into situations like Monahan. And Johnny Hockey. Move up when you can show success at the last level.

3G in 5gp ruined all that. Feaster gifting a job last summer didn't help. Honestly I believe that if Sven started last fall in the AHL, he'd be better off.

No doubt. Being sent down from the NHL to the AHL after 26 games would definitely hurt your confidence.

[RedMileDJ]

No sure if it's been mentioned or not, but how much ice-time did Baertschi get last night?

I don't recall hearing his name at all.

[868904]

He had a great scoring chance early on that Price saved, but other than that, he just wasn't competing hard enough in the puck battles for me.

Johnny is always outmuscled in one on one board battles, but he gets right in there and competes, and sometimes wins the puck based on his quickness and creativity.

My observation of Sven last nite was that he would engage initially and then give up too easily. He'd get lost on the wrong side of the puck and give up. He needs to get back in there and chase that puck down.

When Johnny loses the puck or turns it over, he busts his ass to get it back. Sven needs to do that.

It's not about throwing a big hit or winning the puck battle, it's about how you compete, and it just wasn't there last nite. Maybe it was just being tired from the back to back, but even in previous stints, he's never been one to compete too hard in the dirty areas.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Red-Mile-DJ

No sure if it's been mentioned or not, but how much ice-time did Baertschi get last night?

I don't recall hearing his name at all.

10:49, all even strength and nearly all with Byron and Setoguchi.

[RedMileDJ]

Originally Posted by devo22

10:49, all even strength and nearly all with Byron and Setoguchi.

Thank you. Not sure how I missed all that time.

[Finger Cookin]

nm, missed a page

[Calgary4LIfe]

Sven was invisible for the most part. If I wasn't following him specifically to see how he was performing, I wouldn't have noticed him at all except for that one scoring chance he had.

A few negative things did stand out to me:
- He looked slow out there. Hopefully it was just fatigue, but he was definitely slow.
- He continually lost puck battles. Over and over. Gaudreau finds a way to win some, not necessarily being physical, but being smart. Unless I lost sight of Baertschi while he was on the ice, I didn't see a single instance of him winning a battle.

Things I noticed that were positive:
- He seemed to have better defensive positioning than I last remember him. Seemed to go in more or less the right spots.
- Made a few nice passes, and definitely had great positioning in the offensive zone.

What I liked about Hartley is that he threw Baertschi out on a defensive zone faceoff when Montreal was pushing. He either trusted Baertschi out there, or wanted to test/push him. He did alright - didn't win a puck battle, but he tried.

It was just one game, and you have to wonder if he was overly-tired. Waiting to see how he does in the next game in terms of speed. He is not a physical guy and will never be, but he won't make it in the NHL if he isn't quick, and if he doesn't find a way to win puck battles. I don't expect to see much of him in the NHL this season. Next season is when the Flames will be forced to play him, and hopefully by then he will be a much more rounded player and will find ways to be effective in every zone.

Nobody can argue that Gaudreau isn't playing decent defensively. Or Jooris. It is not ok to have Baertschi here in the NHL when he can't play adequately either. There is a certain threshold I think that he needs to be at before he can become a player who finishes developing in the NHL, and last night's game showed that he wasn't quite there. Hopefully in however many games he does have left he does show that he has met or surpassed that threshold, and finds a way to make it impossible to send him down. He may have been tired, or he may take a few games to just 'get used to it again'. However, it is also disappointing in a way because you see rookies come in and have this incredible 'jump' in their games out of pure adrenalin and excitement - I didn't see that in Baertschi's game. Small sample size anyways, so let's see what Sven brings the next game or two.

I think anyone that is stating that he is being mishandled is wrong - he isn't NHL-caliber from what I saw yesterday and last season. There is zero reason to believe Hartley dislikes him, or even if he does, that he doesn't want Baertschi to succeed. This organization desperately wants this kid to succeed.

I think anyone that is saying he is busting is also wrong - this kid is super-talented and an incredibly hard-working player. Some players just take longer to develop, and I believe Feaster's mishandling of him last year was an issue that he is only starting to get over from a mental standpoint, and his body was simply not ready for the NHL (speed, strength) and the injuries were a bit concerning because I don't think he had adjusted his play to how he can succeed in the NHL.

[GioforPM]

However, it is also disappointing in a way because you see rookies come in and have this incredible 'jump' in their games out of pure adrenalin and excitement - I didn't see that in Baertschi's game.

I was thinking that too. But of course, unlike Jooris/Ferland this wasn't Sven's NHL debut. Which is both disappointing (in that he knows the speed and defence needed in the NHL) and explanatory (less adrenalin).

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by 868904

He had a great scoring chance early on that Price saved, but other than that, he just wasn't competing hard enough in the puck battles for me.

Johnny is always outmuscled in one on one board battles, but he gets right in there and competes, and sometimes wins the puck based on his quickness and creativity.

My observation of Sven last nite was that he would engage initially and then give up too easily. He'd get lost on the wrong side of the puck and give up. He needs to get back in there and chase that puck down.

When Johnny loses the puck or turns it over, he busts his ass to get it back. Sven needs to do that.

It's not about throwing a big hit or winning the puck battle, it's about how you compete, and it just wasn't there last nite. Maybe it was just being tired from the back to back, but even in previous stints, he's never been one to compete too hard in the dirty areas.

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Sven was invisible for the most part. If I wasn't following him specifically to see how he was performing, I wouldn't have noticed him at all except for that one scoring chance he had.

A few negative things did stand out to me:
- He looked slow out there. Hopefully it was just fatigue, but he was definitely slow.
- He continually lost puck battles. Over and over. Gaudreau finds a way to win some, not necessarily being physical, but being smart. Unless I lost sight of Baertschi while he was on the ice, I didn't see a single instance of him winning a battle.

Things I noticed that were positive:
- He seemed to have better defensive positioning than I last remember him. Seemed to go in more or less the right spots.
- Made a few nice passes, and definitely had great positioning in the offensive zone.

What I liked about Hartley is that he threw Baertschi out on a defensive zone faceoff when Montreal was pushing. He either trusted Baertschi out there, or wanted to test/push him. He did alright - didn't win a puck battle, but he tried.

It was just one game, and you have to wonder if he was overly-tired. Waiting to see how he does in the next game in terms of speed. He is not a physical guy and will never be, but he won't make it in the NHL if he isn't quick, and if he doesn't find a way to win puck battles. I don't expect to see much of him in the NHL this season. Next season is when the Flames will be forced to play him, and hopefully by then he will be a much more rounded player and will find ways to be effective in every zone.

Nobody can argue that Gaudreau isn't playing decent defensively. Or Jooris. It is not ok to have Baertschi here in the NHL when he can't play adequately either. There is a certain threshold I think that he needs to be at before he can become a player who finishes developing in the NHL, and last night's game showed that he wasn't quite there. Hopefully in however many games he does have left he does show that he has met or surpassed that threshold, and finds a way to make it impossible to send him down. He may have been tired, or he may take a few games to just 'get used to it again'. However, it is also disappointing in a way because you see rookies come in and have this incredible 'jump' in their games out of pure adrenalin and excitement - I didn't see that in Baertschi's game. Small sample size anyways, so let's see what Sven brings the next game or two.

I think anyone that is stating that he is being mishandled is wrong - he isn't NHL-caliber from what I saw yesterday and last season. There is zero reason to believe Hartley dislikes him, or even if he does, that he doesn't want Baertschi to succeed. This organization desperately wants this kid to succeed.

I think anyone that is saying he is busting is also wrong - this kid is super-talented and an incredibly hard-working player. Some players just take longer to develop, and I believe Feaster's mishandling of him last year was an issue that he is only starting to get over from a mental standpoint, and his body was simply not ready for the NHL (speed, strength) and the injuries were a bit concerning because I don't think he had adjusted his play to how he can succeed in the NHL.

Sven's issues are most definitely tied to concussions also. Not to mention his rib injury at the WC. He is shying away from contact. Now how is that PROPERLY fixed? In AHL? NHL? Coaching? Match ups?

There's no known cure for this yet!

[CsInMyBlood]

Kind of hard to notice Sven last night when Setoguchi continually handles the puck like it is a hand grenade. What a play killer that guy is.

Anytime Sven did get the puck he looked confident with it. The D and Byron continually passed the puck to Setoguchi's side when they would be breaking up the ice. I'm not sure if Setoguchi has completed more then three clean passes all season.

How anybody can pretend to critique what Baertschi's game is all about from viewing last nights game is totally beyond me.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JJ1532

I can't believe there is an in depth discussion of how Sven did in 1 game where he played 10 minutes. Is it because the likes of Granlund, Jooris and Johnny did better last night, or did people actually expect Sven to come almost straight from Addy and rip it up?

People do love judging a prospect far too quickly. This is reminiscent of the Johnny development thread. Lets see how Sven looks off the back of this road trip when, you know, he's actually had some time to show what he can or can't do.

960 has been spending the better part of the afternoon so far talking about him so why can't we? As well Friedmen's comments this morning about other teams scouts putting him in a negative light is discussion worthy as it kind of confirms what some fans had feared in that he doesn't have the mental fortitude to play in the NHL.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by 868904

He had a great scoring chance early on that Price saved, but other than that, he just wasn't competing hard enough in the puck battles for me.

Johnny is always outmuscled in one on one board battles, but he gets right in there and competes, and sometimes wins the puck based on his quickness and creativity.

My observation of Sven last nite was that he would engage initially and then give up too easily. He'd get lost on the wrong side of the puck and give up. He needs to get back in there and chase that puck down.

When Johnny loses the puck or turns it over, he busts his ass to get it back. Sven needs to do that.

It's not about throwing a big hit or winning the puck battle, it's about how you compete, and it just wasn't there last nite. Maybe it was just being tired from the back to back, but even in previous stints, he's never been one to compete too hard in the dirty areas.

Yeah that's why I think the word entitlement gets thrown out there. It's as if he plays on his terms, When Johnny first came talked about not taking things for granted, Hartley talked about how Jooris played like it was his last game and played with passion. Treliving talked about wanting Sven to play with energy and earning trust; but Sven still plays like he wants to do it on his own terms. The clues are there, but does Sven take the bate and run with it. I am willing to take a wait and see but he has to step up and show he wants to stay with the big club. He shouldn't worry about what line he is on or who he plays with; He should just go out there and show he is a team guy and bleeds for the team, the rest will fall into place at the right time.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

960 has been spending the better part of the afternoon so far talking about him so why can't we? As well Friedmen's comments this morning about other teams scouts putting him in a negative light is discussion worthy as it kind of confirms what some fans had feared in that he doesn't have the mental fortitude to play in the NHL.

Yeah, I don't buy that it's too early to talk about whether Baertschi will make it in the NHL. When will it be the right time - when he's 25 and playing in Switzerland?