Flames goaltending is killing our chances at McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin: Discuss

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Los Angeles did.

When were LA bottom feeders?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

It started in 06-07 when they signed Cloutier as their starting goaltender and made conscious efforts over the next few seasons to trade off aging stars and play young guys.

Lombardi's first move was to trade their top forward in Demitra who was better then a ppg in 05/06 for a 1st rounder and O'Sullivan.

Then he traded two NHLers for prospect Jack Johnson.

They tanked alright. They just did it pretty quickly as Lombardi is a sharp one.

They rebuilt (as in: changing personnel)

They didn't tank (in the sense that they made a conscious decision to be the worst team in the league in order to get a draft pick)

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Komskies

Buffalo are bad right now, but Carolina is somehow even worse. They're leading the way on the McEichel standings:

http://www.mceichel.com/

If the game against the Flames was any indication as to the rest of their year, they should be a lock for bottom 3.

Most of their lineup played like they wanted to be somewhere else.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

When did this happen, the year they had to go through 7 goalies because of injury? Hardly tanking that year, that team could just do nothing right.

They still had top 5 picks from 07-09 3 years of pretty bad suckage

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't think you read my post.

yes i did......... did you?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, that's the point (that you have been arguing against). The direction the Flames are taking is great - rebuilding without being a 60 point embarrassment to the league.

What the Flames are doing is a far cry from what the Sabres are doing. You are all over the map with your comments.

A far cry? Besides maybe having a few less UFAs to deal what have been the drastic differences in their approaches?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They rebuilt (as in: changing personnel)

They didn't tank (in the sense that they made a conscious decision to be the worst team in the league in order to get a draft pick)

How do you know they made a conscious effort to be the worst team in the league? That's quite the claim. They didn't trade any players until the deadline. It's not like they made these transactions in the off season. They were bad with these players. At that point what is the most logical thing to do? Trade your UFA's to maximize your assets. Rebuilding 101. This off season they brought back Moulson and added Gionta, Gorges and Meszaros. 4 quality players. How is that trying to tank? They changed coaches. Again a move that shows they were trying to improve things. There has to be a 30th place team every year. That team is going to be bad. It doesn't mean the are intentionally trying to lose, especially when there is actual evidence that suggests otherwise.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

To the first bold, professional sports teams are in the entertainment business, not the cup winning business. Obviously there is nothing more entertaining than winning the cup for their fans, however, it is a 30 team league and they have to sell tickets every year. It doesn't change the fact that every team wants to be as competitive and as successful as they can, but don't come in here and 'remind' us of something that isn't even accurate.

To the second bold, all teams experience ebbs and flows with respect to how competitive they are. But your generic statement about most teams being bad before they are good has little to do with what Bufflalo is doing.

Chicago was bad for a long time but not for a lack of trying.

Teams like Boston, Detroit and LA never tried to bottom-feed in order to get a few core players.

What Buffalo is doing is disgraceful and suggesting it is the path to future success is beyond misleading. It may work for them and prove to be a path to success, but it is by no means a mandatory one or the right and usual one.

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Wait, I thought it was a entertainment business and not to be competitive?

Are the Flames a disgrace too because we aren't trading our 1st round pick for some entertaining players too?

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't think you read my post.

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

yes i did......... did you?

Maybe you should read it again.

[Phanuthier]

Then what is it? I am still confused, and appears I am not the only one. Does a team have to do everything possible to win now? What is it, entertainment or winning? Last years team was the most "entertaining" team I've seen in 5 years, and they were last place. What is it?

And you keep ignoring (on purpose?) the above that Buffalo added 4 vet players to win now - how are they "tanking" on purpose? Is it because they aren't giving up their 1st round pick to win now? Up till now, it seems all you are doing here is posturing and trying to pick a fight on a baseless argument.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Last years team was the most "entertaining" team I've seen in 5 years, and they were last place.

Last place in what, exactly?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Last place in what, exactly?

I'm assuming he means the worst the Flames have finished yet more entertaining than they've been in a while despite that.

[Enoch Root]

The Flames need more 4th round picks!

[dino7c]

just let this die already!

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dino7c

just let this die already!

You have the ability to not click on a thread you don't like. Let people discuss what they want.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Hackey

There has to be a 30th place team every year. That team is going to be bad. It doesn't mean the are intentionally trying to lose, especially when there is actual evidence that suggests otherwise.

Or look at the Hurricanes. Made a big push to improve two seasons ago, bringing in Jordan Staal and signing Semin. But it turns out they're still not very good, and they had a rash of injuries. There's a good chance they'll finish 30th, not the Sabres. How does that fit in with the tanking narrative?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by nik-

You have the ability to not click on a thread you don't like. Let people discuss what they want.

No kidding. Especially when the thread is about tanking.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hackey

How do you know they made a conscious effort to be the worst team in the league? That's quite the claim. They didn't trade any players until the deadline. It's not like they made these transactions in the off season. They were bad with these players. At that point what is the most logical thing to do? Trade your UFA's to maximize your assets. Rebuilding 101. This off season they brought back Moulson and added Gionta, Gorges and Meszaros. 4 quality players. How is that trying to tank? They changed coaches. Again a move that shows they were trying to improve things. There has to be a 30th place team every year. That team is going to be bad. It doesn't mean the are intentionally trying to lose, especially when there is actual evidence that suggests otherwise.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Or look at the Hurricanes. Made a big push to improve two seasons ago, bringing in Jordan Staal and signing Semin. But it turns out they're still not very good, and they had a rash of injuries. There's a good chance they'll finish 30th, not the Sabres. How does that fit in with the tanking narrative?

Yes, the Hurricanes are an example of a team where things have simply gone poorly, and they find themselves at the bottom of the standings. We shall see how they behave as an organization going forward.

The Sabres however, made a conscious decision to be where they are. I can't recall who was talking about it (think it was Friedman), but he was saying that Regier sold ownership (a couple years ago) on the idea of dropping to the bottom of the league until the 2014-2015 season because it was a deep draft. Management bought it.

It turned out so painful that Regier didn't survive it, but his plan remains in tact.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Hackey, you make it seem like the Sabres signed/acquired some "quality UFA players". Well, then why are the Sabres an atrocious 21.7 shots per game? Most teams are in the 27-32 range, but these guys are 3.5 SPG behind the 29th placed Hurricanes with 25.2.

Oh that's right, they signed Meszaros and Gorges to hold down the fort on defense. Well, they are not only the worst team in shots per game, but also letting the most shots against them. 36.7 shots against per game, with Ottawa and Colorado right on their tail.

21.7 shots per game - Gionta/Moulson are doing their job, aren't they?
36.7 shots against per game - Gorges and Meszaros are doing terrific defense.

All those UFA signing/acquired players you claim for them to have them to not tank is not true. I guarantee they signed there for money, they had to reach the cap floor. They have the best prospect pool in the NHL, yet they aren't shelling out any of them to make their team any better.

It is clear this team has a purpose, and that purpose is McDavid. We traded Iginla and Bouwmeester and still played our butts off. Even if we traded Wideman, Hudler, and Giordano (upcoming UFA's with value), I guarantee we'll still finish higher than Buffalo. Nolan is an alright coach, but the players the GM is putting on the ice every night is clear that they are tanking.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, the Hurricanes are an example of a team where things have simply gone poorly, and they find themselves at the bottom of the standings. We shall see how they behave as an organization going forward.

The Sabres however, made a conscious decision to be where they are. I can't recall who was talking about it (think it was Friedman), but he was saying that Regier sold ownership (a couple years ago) on the idea of dropping to the bottom of the league until the 2014-2015 season because it was a deep draft. Management bought it.

It turned out so painful that Regier didn't survive it, but his plan remains in tact.

So they fired the guy who was executing his plan perfectly? And it was so painful they were like let's continue doing it.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Hackey, you make it seem like the Sabres signed/acquired some "quality UFA players". Well, then why are the Sabres an atrocious 21.7 shots per game? Most teams are in the 27-32 range, but these guys are 3.5 SPG behind the 29th placed Hurricanes with 25.2.

Oh that's right, they signed Meszaros and Gorges to hold down the fort on defense. Well, they are not only the worst team in shots per game, but also letting the most shots against them. 36.7 shots against per game, with Ottawa and Colorado right on their tail.

21.7 shots per game - Gionta/Moulson are doing their job, aren't they?
36.7 shots against per game - Gorges and Meszaros are doing terrific defense.

All those UFA signing/acquired players you claim for them to have them to not tank is not true. I guarantee they signed there for money, they had to reach the cap floor. They have the best prospect pool in the NHL, yet they aren't shelling out any of them to make their team any better.

It is clear this team has a purpose, and that purpose is McDavid. We traded Iginla and Bouwmeester and still played our butts off. Even if we traded Wideman, Hudler, and Giordano (upcoming UFA's with value), I guarantee we'll still finish higher than Buffalo. Nolan is an alright coach, but the players the GM is putting on the ice every night is clear that they are tanking.

So the worst team in the league has bad stats. Shocker. Yes yes the Flames work so hard and the Sabres players purposely lose because they care so much about what pick the Sabres get, more so than their own careers. I'm sure the same goes for Nolan.