Flames goaltending is killing our chances at McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin: Discuss

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

That trade with Colorado was just awful. We should've taken picks and any other form of cap dump over Jones and SOB. Tanguay and Sarich are actually decent players. We definitely botched that one...

Feaster is a big SOB fan. Actually gave up a 1st round pick for him once.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

That trade with Colorado was just awful. We should've taken picks and any other form of cap dump over Jones and SOB. Tanguay and Sarich are actually decent players. We definitely botched that one...

Should fire the guy that made that trade.

[schooner]

To speak to the OP on the specifics of goaltending I would argue this is positive for the rebuild.

Bad teams are going to lose, there is going to be rough nights. But those rough nights are demoralizing. Having a goalie(s) who can keep you in games you really shouldnt be in creates a positive, even if artificial, environment to focus on those positives and grow as a team. Getting blown out every night is depressing, for the fans and the players. I have no issue with strong goaltending to ease the burden off a rebuild.

[dino7c]

Only one team is gonna win the cup this year so the other 29 are better off tanking I guess

pro sports these days

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Catching up on this a little late but my point wasn't to advocate tanking; it was this:

"goaltending is winning us games we have no business being in. my point is that our results are skewed by exceptional goaltending. After being outplayed and outshot in all but a couple of games, we're looking artificially respectable. Can these guys keep up this kind of play, or are we heading for a fall?"

So yeah, winning is good and I agree we won't suck anywhere near enough to compete with some teams for the generational talents anyway, but the team has still been largely outplayed, with mostly Hiller's .940 save pct to thank for the wins. Hence the question: is this start reflective of the team's early potential, or a fluke riding on insane goaltending, nothing more?

There's still plenty of potential to be realized throughout the lineup. The early going has been fluke in parts, but for the team to rally and turn the momentum on teams that had them on the ropes says huge things about their resiliency.

With guys like Monahan, Hudler, Glencross and Gaudreau with much more to offer than they have so far, the team is bound to improve to some extent offensively, to help out the defense/goaltending that have been carrying the team to this point.

However, this is October still and it's well known that the level of play goes up a notch a month into the season when the good teams shake off the rust and take off. We'll need our offensive guys to step it up soon or we'll start losing much more games than we win.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by heep223

Keep in mind that we have either 2 or 3 games in hand on 9 out of the other 15 teams in the conference and 1 game in hand on the other 6 teams. Once those teams catch up in games played we will slide, really it's a technicality that we're even holding a wild card spot...

Small correction: All the games in hand belong to the other teams, not the Flames.

Carry on.

[dino7c]

They have played 7 games with 6 on the road...games in hand be dammed Flames have started well

[C_of_Red28]

This whole McDavid thing and the draft is one of the most annoying story lines this summer/season. Who gives a flying beep. I didn't think Calgary would even be close on getting the top pick this year.. so lets move on from it.. We have a great team and I'm sure whoever Treliving ends up drafting will be a great pick. Him and his staff seem like they know what they are doing.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by C_of_Red28

This whole McDavid thing and the draft is one of the most annoying story lines this summer/season. Who gives a flying beep. I didn't think Calgary would even be close on getting the top pick this year.. so lets move on from it.. We have a great team and I'm sure whoever Treliving ends up drafting will be a great pick. Him and his staff seem like they know what they are doing.

I think you're getting way ahead of yourself. We've all lived through the pain of being on the end of a team having terrible starts to the season more than once. Just as easily as that happens, so do hot starts, like the one we are seeing with this current team. Being outplayed and having a lack of ability to control the puck and stay on the attack will catch up with this group at some point. Its been great to watch and makes me proud to know we're not rolling over like the ringling brothers to our north but as fans we can't start thinking this rebuild is already on the uptick when there's still a ton of work to be done.

I can't fathom any instance where this team isn't picking in the top 5 draft slots next year and that opinion certainly won't be swayed by a 7 game stretch that has seen the team go 4-3 while playing what is probably the highest level of hockey they can manage without an influx of talent.

[Flamescuprun2018]

For me this stellar goaltending duo is setting up for our most important trade this season of either Ramo or Hiller for a very high quality prospect. That's building a winner long term! A 19-22 year old right winger with a right shot for 1st or 2nd line is our biggest gap. The 2015 NHL draft is not flush with top end RWs.

Other than trade deadline moves for our pending free agents (2nd round picks at best), this goaltending duo is our best chance to upgrade team long term outside of the draft.

It's a process. The team culture that is being created here is impressive so far and it starts with Giordano as captain and Hartley's conditioning philosophy.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I can't fathom any instance where this team isn't picking in the top 5 draft slots next year and that opinion certainly won't be swayed by a 7 game stretch that has seen the team go 4-3 while playing what is probably the highest level of hockey they can manage without an influx of talent.

You also have to figure that we were vastly outplayed during each of the Vancouver Edmonton (first 2 periods) Nashville, Chicago, Columbus (first 2 periods) and Jets (1st period) games. If not for the combination of hot goaltending and good defense, I could easily see the Flames being 1-6 or 0-7 right now instead of 4-3. Teams are still getting in game shape, and once they do, the Flames will have a hard time adapting to that. Last year, we started equally hot (8 points in the first 7 gp) and yet hit the wall in November when other teams pushed back.

We only have two top 6 forwards in Raymond and Hudler and Raymond's more of a 2nd/3rd line tweener like Glencross used to be before. Having that shallow of depth up front will make it a challenge to continue getting wins, especially when neither of those forwards are really game breakers on their own (Like Iginla was)

It's nice they are doing good now, but expecting them to keep it up is setting yourself up for disappointment once other teams start catching up in work ethic.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

For me this stellar goaltending duo is setting up for our most important trade this season of either Ramo or Hiller for a very high quality prospect. That's building a winner long term! A 19-22 year old right winger with a right shot for 1st or 2nd line is our biggest gap. The 2015 NHL draft is not flush with top end RWs.

Other than trade deadline moves for our pending free agents (2nd round picks at best), this goaltending duo is our best chance to upgrade team long term outside of the draft.

It's a process. The team culture that is being created here is impressive so far and it starts with Giordano as captain and Hartley's conditioning philosophy.

Except good goalies are a dime-a-dozen these days and the return we could expect for Ramo would probably be underwhelming. I believe we fluked out with the return we got for Berra (thank you Patrick Roy) and when you factor in Ramo's impending free agency you know it ain't gonna be a marquee prospect coming back our way. Sorry!

I doubt they signed Hiller to a 2-year deal with the intention of trading him in his first season, either. But maybe some desperate team comes in with a crazy offer for him which Treliving couldn't possibly refuse.

[Caged Great]

The most I could see Ramo getting is a 2nd, and even then it'd be a stretch. Hiller might fetch more off name recognition, but it would still likely be a 2nd + prospect back. Goalies don't get much. The fact they got a 2nd for Berra was amazing.

[Itse]

We'd also need a respectable backup in return.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Itse

We'd also need a respectable backup in return.

Or call up Ortio?

[It's a great day 4 hockey]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

How can you force fans to pay thousands of dollars a year while you put the worst product on the ice.

The is a simple formula to answer this question:

E=NG

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by heep223

Nine out of the last ten Stanley Cup Champions had at least one top three draft pick in the ten drafts prior to them winning. It is possible to build a Stanley Cup champion without having top 3 picks but only the 07/08 Wings accomplished this. 2014/15 Flames are added for illustrative purposes. I was surprised to see how many first rounders the Wings traded away....I guess when you're that good at scouting, you don't need first rounders.

Originally Posted by devo22

to be fair, Bobby Ryan only played 2 playoff games for Anaheim in 2007 and Tyler Seguin also wasn't exactly an impact player for the Bruins in the 2011 playoffs (he was scratched for the first two series I believe).

This list is pretty arbitrary. Take for example the history of just the #3 picks:
· Carolina's #3 was Jack Johnson, who didn't ever play for the team.
· One of Chicago's two #3's was Cam Barker, who was a marginal pick, and had a pretty limited role on their first cup win.
· Chris Gratton was one of TB's two #3s, and their other #3, Alexandr Svitov played only 11 games in their Stanley Cup winning year before he was traded to Columbus.

So really, the only #3 pick who has had any sort of tangible impact on his team's Stanley Cup win in the past ten years is Jonathan Toews. I suspect that if the Flames never again draft higher than #4, and if they manage to win another Cup at some point during Sam Bennett's career, then the same list could be compiled to show identical results, but for teams that have drafted in the top-four at least once.

[Wastedyouth]

[loob job]

I totally agree with the OP, getting a top two pick would have put us ahead a couple years on this clear rebuild. Signing Hiller, a very good goalie, was head scratching to me at the time. We trade away players for picks and now we're signing a number 1 or 1a goalie. I don't know which direction we're going here, i hope management does. I think it would have been smarter to see what we had with Ramo, maybe get one of these huge prospects in the draft to add to our already great prospects and then start making moves to improve the team next year. Just my opinion though.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by loob job

I totally agree with the OP, getting a top two pick would have put us ahead a couple years on this clear rebuild. Signing Hiller, a very good goalie, was head scratching to me at the time. We trade away players for picks and now we're signing a number 1 or 1a goalie. I don't know which direction we're going here, i hope management does. I think it would have been smarter to see what we had with Ramo, maybe get one of these huge prospects in the draft to add to our already great prospects and then start making moves to improve the team next year. Just my opinion though.

How much value is there really in finishing last anymore. Only a 20% chance of picking McDavid anyway. And the chances of finishing dead last and guaranteeing a top 2 pick are not that great anyway.

I think if we finish in the top 20 of the league with this team with a young core, then we are a couple years ahead of being a playoff team vs finishing 30 and getting a top prospect (or even worse finishing 30th and picking 2nd.)