2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Locke

I honestly believe that Sven is in the Flames' plans, but just not right now.

He'll likely be on this team before the year is out.

Sven needs an accountabilibuddy like Backlund. I think they're having similar experiences and Sven could benefit from the encouragement.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Personally, I don't think Hartley wants him on the team, plain and simple.

Look at least year, after an admittedly terrible start in Abby he averaged a point per game in the final 2 months (25 ish games). However, he never got called back up like almost every other top 6 forward in Abby did for the 6-10 game stint at the end of last season. Why didn't he get the shot again? He was playing great. Knight came up, Reinhart, Granlund, Street, B Jones, everybody other than Sven got a shot. As soon as Feaster is gone, Hartley sends him down. The content of the "interview" with Svens father a few posts up. There is plenty of smoke billowing for the theory that Hartley just doesn't like him.

However, this is all purely speculation on my part and may be completely incorrect.

I really wouldn't take his dad's views too seriously. It doesn't matter if Sven complains in private. Almost everyone complains in private. A dad might conclude that his son isn't being given a fair chance but this is a hockey dad we're talking about.

Slight struggles might just be what Sven needs. And these are still just small struggles. They'll only become big if he takes the wrong attitude towards them.

Do you honestly doubt that if Sven plays really well in the AHL, he'll get called up? To me all he needs to do is keep working and he'll be in the NHL. It doesn't have to be this month.

No coach is objective. They'll like some players and not like others for a number of reasons. But usually there's a limit to that. Make it an objective reality that you're too good to be playing in the AHL and no one is going to keep you down there.

[Badgers Nose]

IMO they want him to crack the first two lines. Sven is wasted on lines 3 and 4.

That says they are confident he can. Otherwise they would go to plan B.

When he is ready they will trade someone away to get him some space.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Look who is sitting for tomorrow's game -- Jones and Setoguchi. It seems possible, even likely, that the Flames would rather play Sven than those two, but don't want him sitting in the press box. Which makes total sense to me.

So maybe we can calm down about the earned, never given bit?

They may also have Jooris ahead of both those guys, but not ahead of the guys dressing (and we all know Grats is not really a "depth chart" kind of consideration on RW).

This, 1000x this.

[sureLoss]

Granlund has assigned to Adirondack

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I do think he'll be up sooner rather than later, but if the situation hasn't changed for the positive by the end of the year (and he's not traded), I honestly could see him jetting back to Europe next year. I think this is the make or break it year for Sven on the Flames.

I think he'll be on the team by the back-end of the season once people are moved, at the moment theres really only a few moves the Flames can make and none of them are particularly beneficial for either the players or the team.

As the season wears on people will be moved, be it by waiver or trade and other players will come in. I believe that Jooris and Baertschi are the first two in line.

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Look who is sitting for tomorrow's game -- Jones and Setoguchi. It seems possible, even likely, that the Flames would rather play Sven than those two, but don't want him sitting in the press box. Which makes total sense to me.

So maybe we can calm down about the earned, never given bit?

They may also have Jooris ahead of both those guys, but not ahead of the guys dressing (and we all know Grats is not really a "depth chart" kind of consideration on RW).

This.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Granlund has assigned to Adirondack

A guy who probably looked the most NHL-ready out of all the prospects, so it's a real shame he was injured. Hopefully it didn't throw him too much off track, and we see him back soon.

[mile]

Hartley has actually praised Sven during camp and given that Sven was one of the final cuts, I don't buy that Hartley has anything against him.

http://m.calgarysun.com/2014/10/03/c...long-term-plan

“The battle is on, and Sven is part of that battle,” said Flames head coach Bob Hartley. “I really like that he’s on the puck. He’s going to the net. He’s making things happen. I think that he could and he should have maybe three, four goals already. It’s bouncing pucks or good saves by goalies, but the chances are there, and that’s always where I feel the most positive.”

Whether Hartley mishandled him is a different story - I believe that was more Feaster's fault for keeping him up here when he shouldn't have

As far as trading Sven is concerned, I don't see that happening unless he outright demands leaving or if the return is a premium. Treliving is a huge backer of his and won't trade him for the sake of trading him.

All I know is if Sven has truly matured he will deal with this with the same attitude he has shown since the summer. Hopefully the team will make room for him soon and he lights up the AHL - I'd hate to see him become a top forward for a different team.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

It seems possible, even likely, that the Flames would rather play Sven than those two, but don't want him sitting in the press box.

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

IMO they want him to crack the first two lines. Sven is wasted on lines 3 and 4.

That says they are confident he can. Otherwise they would go to plan B.

Reasonable assumptions, but the only thing that makes me question them is Sven saying he felt confused about him being cut. One would think that the Flames would communicate to him why he was cut and what their plans are...but I'm not sure that was the case considering Sven's reaction.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple months, both on the teams side and Svens performance.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Locke

I honestly believe that Sven is in the Flames' plans, but just not right now.

He'll likely be on this team before the year is out.

As many are saying, I agree with this. If Sven was no longer in the plans (for whatever reason), he'd actually be in the starting line up tomorrow trying to increase his value as we prep to maximise a trade.

Looks to me like the Flames brass did a good job of creating a good competitive balance at camp, created the competition they wanted not just to hand the rookies the spots. Now (at the moment, nothing is ever in stone) two vets are on the outside looking in from the forward ranks while younger players take their roles on the team, and some of the other younger players who also likely out played them keep developing their games in the AHL rather than have them sit in the press box.

Now the Flames just have to figure out how best to manage the vets that aren't winning their jobs from the kids and how to best maximise (if possible) anything from those assets.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Congrats to Paul Byron.

Pretty much written off this time last year by most posters, myself included by the way. A small player in a Brian Burke world who emerged strong to end the season last year. Hopefully Colburne can become a solid player down the middle because Byron and Gaudreau on the wing can be a fun duo to watch.

[Resolute 14]

Byron is also a lesson for Baertschi. Could have gone to Europe. Chose to stay, knowing he was starting in the AHL. Got a mid-season call-up, never looked back.

[MissTeeks]

Craig Conroy talked about Sven on Sports Talk 770 last night. He mentioned that he thought Sven handled he demotion much better than he did last year. I don't have time to transcribe it right now, but it's at around the 50 minute mark of the 7pm archive of their website:

http://www.newstalk770.com/audio-on-demand-2/

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Congrats to Paul Byron.

Pretty much written off this time last year by most posters, myself included by the way. A small player in a Brian Burke world who emerged strong to end the season last year. Hopefully Colburne can become a solid player down the middle because Byron and Gaudreau on the wing can be a fun duo to watch.

Pretty amazing watching him win some of the battles he does against much larger opponents. He definitely came out of left field to earn a spot on this team last season. Left the Flames with a good problem I suppose, of now having to look at getting rid of another vet in order to make room for some of the guys in the A who are right on the cusp of being NHL ready.

Looking forward to watching that line to start the year.

[Muta]

Definitely excited for Byron as well, and congrats to him. He was a tweener last year, and despite fighting criticism about his size, he made this team through hard work.

The kid also has sick offensive skills too; here's to hoping he gets 35+ points this year. He was my favourite player on last year's squad by the end of the year.

[Flash Walken]

I'm glad Byron made the roster. Great player to have for a season like last season. Tenacious, helps keep things close.

[kehatch]

People called it hyperbole a few pages ago for saying the Flames management of the situation has messed with Baertschi psychologically.

The guy was awarded with a starting roster spot a season ago when he showed zero effort in camp. This season he did what the Flames wanted and worked his tail off and he doesn't get one. Talk about a mixed message.

Anybody would be confused and upset. Piss poor management by the Flames. Stop making excuses for them.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by kehatch

People called it hyperbole a few pages ago for saying the Flames management of the situation has messed with Baertschi psychologically.

The guy was awarded with a starting roster spot a season ago when he showed zero effort in camp. This season he did what the Flames wanted and worked his tail off and he doesn't get one. Talk about a mixed message.

Anybody would be confused and upset. Piss poor management by the Flames. Stop making excuses for them.

You are talking about literally 2 different managers. Jay Feaster/John Weisbrod vs. Brad Treliving/Brian Burke. If Sven is confused it's because there were major philosophical differences between those groups, and is part of the reason why Feaster and Weisbrod are gone.

Quite frankly, I feel the current management group has been consistent in their criteria, and Sven is right on the cusp of being full time. Just ask Treliving. Get over it, and stop trying to make something bigger out of a prospect almost making the opening day roster, but not quite. It's embarrassing at this point.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

You are talking about literally 2 different managers. Jay Feaster/John Weisbrod vs. Brad Treliving/Brian Burke. If Sven is confused it's because there were major philosophical differences between those groups, and is part of the reason why Feaster and Weisbrod are gone.

Quite frankly, I feel the current management group has been consistent in their criteria, and Sven is right on the cusp of being full time. Just ask Treliving. Get over it, and stop trying to make something bigger out of a prospect almost making the opening day roster, but not quite. It's embarrassing at this point.

You are right. A media article suggesting the player is frustrated and may want a trade is no reason to discuss the teams management of the player. Sorry I made you blush. Creepy.

It may be multiple managers. But from a players experience it's one coach and one experience.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by kehatch

You are right. A media article suggesting the player is frustrated and may want a trade is no reason to discuss the teams management of the player. Sorry I made you blush. Creepy.

It may be multiple managers. But from a players experience it's one coach and one experience.

First of all, Sven didn't say anything anywhere close to the quotes in that article. If he ever does, then we can discuss it. It's about as useful as a gossip magazine. Media article….sheesh. Have to know the source of the comments as well as the credibility of the writer.

Secondly, Hartley has been remarkably consistent in his treatment of Sven, and considering all the good he's done so far, he's earned our trust in how he sees things. That being said, he's a fan of the kid and, like everyone else in the management group, wants him to work on a couple things so that when there's an opportunity for him (and it sounds like there will be) he'll be ready to come back and take a spot permanently. The whole management group is on the same page, and I think it's a good page personally.

You know, when it comes to Sven and this forum, all the rules of prospect development go out the window. It's crazy how everyone is rushing to his defense over and over again. Flat out, he needs to earn it, and he really hasn't yet. He's been close, but he's never flat out taken a job on the team.

If he was smart, he would try and learn something from Paul Byron or Mikael Backlund who were in nearly the same situation as him over the course of the past few years, and are now permanent roster players. It's up to him and nobody else.

Cripes, I'm getting so sick of this same discussion over and over again.