2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

So...will gaudreau start the season with 53? Or will he get his number 13

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Jooris needs to work on his offense. He will get top 6 minutes and PP time in Addy. He would NOT get that here.

Bouma was never top 6 in Abby. Jooris is not going to make the NHL on his scoring.

Top 6 in Addy: Baertschi, Granlund, Rienhart, Knight, Agostino, Hanowski, Ferland, Arnold,

That would be 8. The Flames would also want to see Wolf as a player and Van Babrant

It is not like the Addy Flames were waiting for Jooris to carry them.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You mean like Gaudreau?

Or Monahan and Baertschi last year?

Or Bouma and Brodie the prior year?

Or Backlund prior to that?

There could be several next year (Bennett, Poirier, our 1st, Wotherspoon, Sieloff) so they better get plenty of ice-time this year

Which veterans did those guys beat out? Which veterans got cut? IIRC none, because there were spots truly open to be won. That's why signing Setoguchi was so unnecessary. They started last year with what, 3 rookies? It turned out just fine

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Which veterans did those guys beat out? Which veterans got cut? IIRC none, because there were spots truly open to be won. That's why signing Setoguchi was so unnecessary. They started last year with what, 3 rookies? It turned out just fines

The Setoguchi signing was necessary to ensure a youngster would not be sitting in the pressbox. I guess the flames could waive Setoguchi, but I doubt a youngster would get his spot. More than likely they would pick up another player on waivers to sit in pressbox.

[foshizzle11]

I think I am going to hold off on judging the decisions until we hear from Treliving as to why what was done has been done.

I am just ask annoyed by the always earned, never given motto and to us it seems like it isn't being followed. We all know that some of the prospects have out performed the vets in the preseason but could they continue that pace for 82 games?

I don't think our roster is set for the season at all, we will see guys coming in and out of the lineup throughout the season and I fully expect vet's positions to be taken away. We will see different lineup come xmas time, if not sooner.

[djsFlames]

Burke will likely make Johnny switch to 13.

I hope they sort out his regular number sooner than later cause I'd like to get Gaudreau on my jersey at the next game I'm able to attend. Been meaning to since he signed in the spring.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Bouma was never top 6 in Abby. Jooris is not going to make the NHL on his scoring.

Top 6 in Addy: Baertschi, Granlund, Rienhart, Knight, Agostino, Hanowski, Ferland, Arnold,

That would be 8. The Flames would also want to see Wolf as a player and Van Babrant

It is not like the Addy Flames were waiting for Jooris to carry them.

Jooris is not Bouma and will need to provide some semblance of an offensive contribution if he wants to play in the NHL.

Who said they are waiting for Jooris to carry them? Jooris will get PP time in Addy.

And based on the fact that some of you think he should have made the team, he is on an equal level with - or ahead of - Agostino, Arnold, Hanowski, Knight and Reinhart

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Which veterans did those guys beat out? Which veterans got cut? IIRC none, because there were spots truly open to be won. That's why signing Setoguchi was so unnecessary. They started last year with what, 3 rookies? It turned out just fines

Opening lineup last year rookies were Monahan, Street and Baertschi and Bouma was in his first real season

[djsFlames]

Poirier excites me. He looked damn good last training camp, and his short stint with the Heat at the end of the year was impressive as well. Hope it doesn't take him long to get back into form. That's one call up I'm eager to see.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Opening lineup last year rookies were Monahan, Street and Baertschi and Bouma was in his first real season

Add Colborne a few games later as well as Berra and Ramo if you consider them rookies. No hesitance to use younger players. Monohan, Colborne, Bouma, Byron (and Ramo) all graduated last year even before Stempniak got traded. Sure the team sucked but these guys were bright spots*. So why fill the roster with vets?

Edit: *except Berra, and Baertschi ultimately made way for Byron

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

The organization can do whatever it likes, but I don't see any issue whatsoever with fans calling it out for saying one thing and doing another.

Sure. But this is not a case of saying one thing and doing another. This is a case of your own faulty assumptions causing upset. The Flames never set arbitrary times on when, where and how they complete their evaluations, even if you have.

Jooris outplayed Setoguchi by any measure, and yet he's the one clearing out his locker.

Jooris went from AHL project to a kid knocking on the NHL's door. He's vaulted himself well up the organizational ladder, and as a result, I fully expect he will make his NHL debut this year. That is something that was not remotely guaranteed at the start of camp. It is, however, an example of how meritocracy really works. Jooris has shown the Flames that they can trust him to come into this lineup when the need arises.

Why don't we let Setoguchi prove his worth in the AHL? Let him earn his way into the lineup. He certainly didn't do it during camp.

There is nothing he can prove in Adirondack. The Flames signed him with the hope that he can provide a little offence for the NHL team. He has to be on the NHL team to do this. The simple truth is, his history in the NHL is what earned him an extended look. But the play of guys like Jooris also leaves his footing insecure. I'm not going to worry about whether or not Setoguchi should be in the lineup until around game 10. But he has to produce.

I don't even have a problem with the team keeping Setoguchi over Jooris, and the reasons you've cited in support of that decision are fine by me. But then don't claim that roster spots are always earned and never given. That's the disconnect. The only thing Setoguchi did to earn his ongoing place with the team was to sign the one-way deal.

No, the disconnect is that you are taking an extremely narrow view of what "earned" and "given" mean and coupled it with an arbitrary deadline. Setoguchi did enough, past and present, to earn a longer look. Jooris did enough to earn a place in the conversation when call-ups become necessary. Baertschi, IMO, has shown that he is much closer to being an NHL regular today than he was at the end of last season.

Looking at these three players, I expect that - good or bad - Setoguchi does not end the year in Calgary, Baertschi does, and Jooris gets at least a few games. All three of these events would be the result of merit. Training camp is only a small part of that process.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by Rerun

For all those who feel the Flames did the right thing in keeping Setoguchi and sending Jooris down.... please explain to me what advantage there is in having Seto in the lineup rather than Jooris?

Other than improving our chances in the 2015 draft of course...

Are the Flames really a better team with Seto here? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Do you seriously think the team is materially different either way?

1) Setoguchi could return an asset if he rights his career (and is gone if he doesn't)

2) Jooris gets more ice-time and a chance to work on his offense in Addy

3) the culture in Addy should be excellent as they will likely be really good.

4. Should Seto not perform it's press box. AHL is better for Jooris

5. Seto has more upside (returning to form) than that of Jooris.

I see a lot of posters complaining Meritocracy comments, but I recall a lot more of the "can't over ripen a prospect" type comments.

[flamesfever]

We should be happy at the situation where so many of the younger players made it such a difficult task for management to have to send them back to the AHL, in spite of their exceptional performance during the preseason. In hindsight, it was probably a forgone conclusion that this would have to happen, when you consider the number of openings in the main core of our team. As has been mentioned, we're using the Detroit model.

I wouldn't take last night's game as an example of how we are going to perform during the season, as it will take a few games for the vets to get in the groove. We will still have a fair amount of scoring potential in players like Hudler, Giordano, Backlund, Stajan, along with some of the younger exceptional scoring talent in Monahan, JG, Bennett (for 9 games?) and Byron. Also, our goaltending, a reasonable defence, a few enforcers, along with good coaching will probably keep us fairly competitive.

IMO, all things considered, we should improve somewhat in the standing from last year. And with so many players on the edge of breaking into the NHL, our future looks great.

[sureLoss]

Randy Sportak @SUNRandySportak
#Flames: Ortio understanding of situation; knows No.-3 on chart. Jooris proud how he opened eyes. Baertschi is frustrated and feels "awful"

Randy Sportak @SUNRandySportak
Baertschi: "I'm in-between being sad and just really confused.” Believes he did everything asked him since last season. #Flames

[Street Pharmacist]

Ouch Baertschi

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Randy Sportak @SUNRandySportak
#Flames: Ortio understanding of situation; knows No.-3 on chart. Jooris proud how he opened eyes. Baertschi is frustrated and feels "awful"

Randy Sportak @SUNRandySportak
Baertschi: "I'm in-between being sad and just really confused.” Believes he did everything asked him since last season. #Flames

Oh geez. Baertschi just has to keep working and be patient.

I worry for his confidence.

[FBI]

Yeah I'm hoping this isn't going to be a spiral downwards for baertschi. If he spirals, because of setoguchi and jones, that will be such a waste.

[Robo]

Sad to hear that from baertschi but he looked much better this training camp hope to see him up with the team sooner rather than later

[fatso]

whoa, didn't that see that tweet about Baertschi. I think he is right - he has done what was asked of him since last season (at least as far as I know, someone with more knowledge will surely correct me if I'm wrong). I too worry about his confidence. Hopefully he can stay the course and get rewarded with a call-up soon.

[mhsyyc]

With Baertschi's comments it makes me think his greatest obstacle to him being a regular in the NHL is his attitude. He's got to take the disappointment and use it as motivation. If he sits and pouts he's done. Come to think of it, if he sits and pouts I don't want him on our team.