2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

I do not agree. The vets provide a safety net in case our rooks didn't/don't perform. There is no arguing that the youth has shown well. It is a great problem to have. Seto was signed cheap, and is not old. Can be traded or dropped with only a 750k risk. This was a good low risk potential fair reward signing.

If not Seto then who? Jones was already here (and even if over paid is under valued). What other whipping boy you got?

Relax, opening day rosters are not set in stone. That roster will have a number of changes over the year. Patience.

The old guys are pylons to be navigated around by the kids. Yeah, they are an insurance policy but they are also guys that a top prospect should be able to beat.

I think the Flames have laid this out really nice and an opening night roster spot is up for grabd for any guy willing to do the work.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Agreed. Plus, I think Hatrley is the kind of guy that does not care.

If you suck, Burke is going to fire you whether you do it your way or what you think his way is. So might as well run the horses you think will win you the race.

It would be a horrible shame if guys like Seto and Jones dress ahead of a dynamo like Johnny H.

The debate is moot. Last year everyone felt the same way about Moneyhands. Everything worked out great. I think Flames will do the right thing.

Apparently (according to a discussion on the FAN this week) Hartley lobbied HARD to keep Monahan last year. And as it turned out, that worked out pretty well for him, Burke, and all concerned.

I would think Hartley's vote will carry some weight this year.

[Badgers Nose]

There's a sparkle in his eye when he talks about Johnny.

[Azure]

Sieloff will be back. From all accounts if you consider he had to take a year off of hockey, he had one hell of a training camp.

The Flames do not have a player like him. The ability to change a game with a single hit.

[killer_carlson]

the last time the Flames had a player like Sieloff, he wore out at the end of the season and was never healthy enough for the playoffs (Phaneuf). Sieloff needs to either pack on another 20 pounds or learn to pick his spots. Starting him in the AHL isn't a bad idea.

I really liked what I saw from him this camp.

[FBI]

Yeah Sieloff was terrible his first few games and by the end of camp he was playing damn good.

I'm back to being excited about him

[Enoch Root]

Sieloff's camp was shockingly impressive considering he missed his entire 19 year old season

[savardandjokinen]

Granlund, potter and tspoon will be injured. That's 27. Ortio will be sent down. Thats 26.
Bennett will go down to junior. 25. Now I believe byron, setoguchi and Jones should all make it so it's down to sven, jooris and johnny hockey. Sven has had a good camp but not like those two. Gaudreau should make it even tho jooris has been great.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

the last time the Flames had a player like Sieloff, he wore out at the end of the season and was never healthy enough for the playoffs (Phaneuf). Sieloff needs to either pack on another 20 pounds or learn to pick his spots. Starting him in the AHL isn't a bad idea.

I really liked what I saw from him this camp.

Seiloff would play bottom pairing minutes though, where Phaneuf was playing top 4 minutes, top 2 at a lot of times. I don't see him wearing out as much as Dion did.

[Francis's Hairpiece]

I'm not going to lie, I was hoping to see a Ferland Bouma Jooris 3rd or 4th line. Oh well. Maybe later in the season.

[Street Pharmacist]

Ferland will be up for sure

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

I do not agree. The vets provide a safety net in case our rooks didn't/don't perform. There is no arguing that the youth has shown well. It is a great problem to have. Seto was signed cheap, and is not old. Can be traded or dropped with only a 750k risk. This was a good low risk potential fair reward signing.

If not Seto then who? Jones was already here (and even if over paid is under valued). What other whipping boy you got?

Relax, opening day rosters are not set in stone. That roster will have a number of changes over the year. Patience.

Why on earth do we want a safety net...we have guys like Reinhart, Knight, Arnold , etc etc who could be filling these roles. (In addition to the guys still on the roster) The point of this season should be developing more players and definitely finishing as low in the standings as possible.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

The old guys are pylons to be navigated around by the kids. Yeah, they are an insurance policy but they are also guys that a top prospect should be able to beat.

Sadly, those veterans are also players every team in the NHL will be able to beat. Our management has put together a group of veterans that will get beat by our minor league affiliate on most nights. Pretty ugly team. The only thing holding the team back is the belief in the young players.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Sieloff's camp was shockingly impressive considering he missed his entire 19 year old season

Very much agree. I was surprised by his agility and how quickly he made decisions. He even pulled off a spinerama right in front our net to stop a scoring chance. Sieloff has a very high ceiling as he has decent hands and agility for a guy that makes open ice hits. I would be surprised if he doesn't atleast get a chance, physically he should dominate in Addy and have a pretty easy time controlling the flow of the game. Whatever the flames did to their prospect development system seems to have turned 180 degrees. With Sieloff's physical tools he should be able to be a 3-4 dman, he may even get there this year filling in for injuries.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by New Era

Sadly, those veterans are also players every team in the NHL will be able to beat. Our management has put together a group of veterans that will get beat by our minor league affiliate on most nights. Pretty ugly team. The only thing holding the team back is the belief in the young players.

There is nothing holding this team back. Most of the kids only have a year or less of professional experience each. Usually you need 2-3 years in the minors before becoming an NHL player with limited exceptions (guys like Monahan). Most of the Flames good prospects have very little experience.

Monahan - 1 year
Granlund - 1 year
Jooris - 1 year
Wotherspoon - 1 year
Knight - 1 year
Ferland - 25ish games
Bennett - None
Gaudreau - None
Sieloff - None
Jankowski - None
Kulak - None
Culkin - None
Gillies - None
McDonald - None
Arnold - None
Agostino - None
BVB - None

Only Sven - 2 years, Reinhart - 2 years and a couple other guys have enough experience (and even then it's the early side)

The kids might have skill, but we've seen what happens when you rush a guy that isn't ready. Sven has as much talent as anyone but has struggled greatly at establishing himself as an NHL player because he came to the NHL at 18 and has been rather inconsistent since (injuries do play a factor as well).

Yes, the Flames are going to suck this year. They would suck if they rushed some of the top prospects as well (although not as much). It is annoying to endure, but it is likely in the player's best interest in the long term to get some more time in the minors.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

the last time the Flames had a player like Sieloff, he wore out at the end of the season and was never healthy enough for the playoffs (Phaneuf). Sieloff needs to either pack on another 20 pounds or learn to pick his spots. Starting him in the AHL isn't a bad idea.

I really liked what I saw from him this camp.

* Are you talking about the year Dion broke ribs? That's not wearing down, definitely not a size issue. If so, that's the year Langkow had a broken hand, Sutter mismanaged the cap so they dressed 17 skaters, and Keenan was sent packing, resulting in 3 years of BS. That still hurts to think about.

[cam_wmh]

Forwards (14) + 1 on I.R
Backlund
Baertschi Adirondack
Bennett Kingston
Bollig
Bouma
Byron (Press Box)
Colborne
Gaudreau
Glencross
Granlund With Flames, until healthy. I.R
Hudler
Jones
Jooris Adirondack
McGrattan
Monahan
Raymond
Setoguchi (Press Box)
Stajan

Defence (7) (+2 on I.R)
Brodie
Diaz
Engelland
Giordano
[/i]Potter [/i] On I.R with Flames, until healthy. Then Adirondack
Russell
Smid
Wideman
Wotherspoon On I.R with Flames, until healthy. Then Adirondack

Goalies (3)
Hiller
Ortio Adirondack
Ramo

-----------------------
Wednesday`s Home Opener vs Canucks.

Glencross - Stajan - Hudler
Gaudreau - Monahan - Jones
Backlund - Colbourne - Raymond
Bollig - Bouma - McGratton

Giordano - Brodie
Russel - Engeland
Smid - Wideman
Diaz

Scratches: Byron & Setoguchi

[Matty81]

For me, with granlund out and only 3 cuts left at forward, there is really only 1 tough call.

Bennett needs to go back to the OHL and play world juniors.

Setoguchi has been horrible and he is just blocking development time for younger guys. There is no upside to keeping him at all. Will return a 3rd at best at the deadline in a perfect storm - I guess that's the only plus.

Last cut come down to Jooris, Baertschi or Byron for me. Jooris and Byron can play on any line and are older, getting a lot of minutes for them is not as important as for Sven. As painful as it will be for him, I see Sven being the last cut.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Most of the kids only have a year or less of professional experience each. Usually you need 2-3 years in the minors before becoming an NHL player with limited exceptions (guys like Monahan).

I don't agree with this at all. I will agree that players need 2-3 years playing against men so they can adjust to the speed and physicality of the game, but they don't need 2-3 years in the minors. There are different avenues to get that experience. Guys that play in Europe get exposure to playing against men. Guys that play in college get that same experience. Players coming from these two pools need a lot less adjustment time.

Most of the Flames good prospects have very little experience.

That's a nice cherry-picked list of prospects. Love how you slid the guys in there that were just drafted to bump the numbers, even though they aren't even under consideration. Try focusing on the guys that are most likely ready to play and showed as much in camp. Most of those players were our older prospects who had played in Europe or college or have toiled in the minors.

The kids might have skill, but we've seen what happens when you rush a guy that isn't ready. Sven has as much talent as anyone but has struggled greatly at establishing himself as an NHL player because he came to the NHL at 18 and has been rather inconsistent since (injuries do play a factor as well).

The reason many of the kids spend time in the minors is to learn how to be a professional and do some mental and emotional maturing. That was Baertschi's problem, not his skill level. He's gone through that development process and appears to be much more prepared for the NHL. Others have already gone through that as well. Players also need exposure to the NHL game so they have an adjustment period to get used to the speed of the game. They don't get that adjustment period in the minors, they only get it in the NHL.

If you think you are doing a player a service by sitting them in the minors, while we have some veterans to fly high cover for these guys in the NHL, then you're kidding yourself. It is much better for these kids to come into situations where they are playing on the 3rd and 4th lines, gaining some experience, so they can jump up and play on the higher lines the following year when those vets shuffle off to Buffalo, or where ever. It takes a young player a couple seasons to really step up and contribute at the NHL level. Better to get that process going while we have some vets to cover them, rather than going all Oiler and forcing them into the lineup in positions where they won't be successful. The Flames need to continually filter in those rookies so they become the young veterans to ready to assume the important roles for the hockey club. Sitting on guys in the AHL, that proved to be better than some of your veterans, is not a good thing, not when you look at the contract status of the guys expected to carry the offensive load. The Flames need to get some of the skilled prospects a NHL season before those vets leave, or it is really going to be ugly in the years to come. We keep talking about hitting rock bottom this year, but if the team doesn't have those young guys prepared to assume the offensive mantle, we are a season or two from bottoming out and two or three seasons from seeing a move up the standings.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

* Are you talking about the year Dion broke ribs? That's not wearing down, definitely not a size issue. If so, that's the year Langkow had a broken hand, Sutter mismanaged the cap so they dressed 17 skaters, and Keenan was sent packing, resulting in 3 years of BS. That still hurts to think about.

As each season wore on, Dion would end up with a a hip pointer, ribs, sore shoulders, etc.

The type of game he played did not allow him to stay healthy for the playoffs. It was a(nother) flaw in his game.