2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Just curious about this hypothetical question:
If we for example send David Jones to the minors and he is claimed on waivers, would we even be able to ice a team that reached the cap floor?

I imagine that before they put him on waivers they would shop him at 1/2 price. Any team willing to claim him would certainly give a late draft pick for the cap savings.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Just curious about this hypothetical question:
If we for example send David Jones to the minors and he is claimed on waivers, would we even be able to ice a team that reached the cap floor? And if we couldn't; what are the implications? forfeiting games?
I know this would never happen....just curious about what the rules state. Anyone know?

Just for example if you lost Setoguchi and Jones with not retained cap hit, and dress:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler
Glencross-Backlund-Raymond
Byron-Stajan-Colborne
Bolig-Bouma-McGrattan
Baertschi-Jorris

Gio-Brodie
Russell-Engelland
Smid-Wideman

Hiller
Ramo

you would need to spend $2,694,167 on the 7th d spot to reach $16M below the Cap Max, which I believe is still the floor?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by #-3

$16M below the Cap Max, which I believe is still the floor?

It is not. Under the new CBA, the cap and floor are percentage based. This year's floor will be $51M.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

You voted:

20th - Culkin
21st - Culkin
22nd - Ollas Mattson
23rd - Ollas Mattson
24th - Ollas Mattson
25th - Hanowski
26th - Rafikov
27th - Jooris
28th - Van Brabant
29th - Ramage
30th - Ramage
---Stopped voting

I'll give you credit for throwing 1 vote his way at 27th, but don't pretend to be annoyed that he fell to 35th, and say you "had him in the early 20s at least".

That doesn't really mean anything. Just because he voted for Jooris @ 27 doesn't mean he had 26 guys ahead of Jooris. I at least see 3 occasions listed where his pick wasn't the winner, He could have had the winners of 20, 22 and 23 lower than Jooris on his list. I don't know that he did, but it's at least a possibility.

This is also why this form of voting is flawed IMO. I think it would much better for everyone to give a list and calculate the average ranking for each player.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by getbak

It is not. Under the new CBA, the cap and floor are percentage based. This year's floor will be $51M.

OK, so then you would have to pay your 7th d man at least 700K.

So with Potter added in there that group would be about 6K over the cap floor.
With out any penalties or retain salaries

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Gaudreau is already the biggest dog we have.
It will be a shame if Johnny or Sven are demoted.
The team made a mistake by signing so many vets.
Each deal can be rationalized by on its own, but when you add them all up it would have been much more prudent to let our 5-6 top prospects fight it out for 3-4 spots.
We could have always signed the likes of Setoguchi at a later date if things weren't working out.
I think you can do harm to a prospect by continually burying them in the minors, and the Flames have done it for years.
All the talk about a meritocracy will be total BS if those 12 vets on 1 way contracts all make the team on opening day.

I agree. Good post.

[Stay Golden]

I was hoping Ferland would make it, he had a decent preseason but there is a good chance he could work himself back into the mix sometime this season.

[dino7c]

1. JG deserves to make the team
2. Cutting him would be an absolute PR nightmare (not saying this is a factor its just a fact)

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

That doesn't really mean anything. Just because he voted for Jooris @ 27 doesn't mean he had 26 guys ahead of Jooris. I at least see 3 occasions listed where his pick wasn't the winner, He could have had the winners of 20, 22 and 23 lower than Jooris on his list. I don't know that he did, but it's at least a possibility.

This is also why this form of voting is flawed IMO. I think it would much better for everyone to give a list and calculate the average ranking for each player.

Yes, thanks for posting what I was going to say anyways. I had Jooris ahead of a lot of players, players I mentioned in my post, so that would have put him in the early 20s. If anyone wants to see my full list it would be:

1. Gaudreau
2. Bennett
3. Baertschi
4. Granlund
5. Poirier
6. Wotherspoon
7. Klimchuk
8. Reinhart
9. Gillies
10. Jankowski
11. Sieloff
12. Ortio
13. Arnold
14. Kulak
15. Ferland
16. Knight
17. Agostino
18. Smith
19. Culkin
20. Ollas Mattson
21. McDonald
22. Hanowski
23. Rafikov
24. Jooris
25. Van Brabant
26. Ramage
27. Hickey
28. Kanzig
29. Gilmour
30. Carroll

I stop ranking at 30.

[FBI]

What ranking did Ferland get overall? I think he has jumped way up..

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FBI

What ranking did Ferland get overall? I think he has jumped way up..

15th

[StrykerSteve]

Dunno where else to put this, so here it goes.

@JGillies32: two sticks snapped in half in one practice...@Janko61 is almost too strong now #wristcurls #200club http://t.co/meUcRSpnzx

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by #-3

Just for example if you lost Setoguchi and Jones with not retained cap hit, and dress:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler
Glencross-Backlund-Raymond
Byron-Stajan-Colborne
Bolig-Bouma-McGrattan
Baertschi-Jorris

Gio-Brodie
Russell-Engelland
Smid-Wideman

Hiller
Ramo

you would need to spend $2,694,167 on the 7th d spot to reach $16M below the Cap Max, which I believe is still the floor?

That's interesting; Nick Leddy makes $2.7 million, if I'm not mistaken...

Yet another reason to trade for him.

[Nme-Territory]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Dunno where else to put this, so here it goes.

@JGillies32: two sticks snapped in half in one practice...@Janko61 is almost too strong now #wristcurls #200club http://t.co/meUcRSpnzx

So he's either shooting harder or he's turned into a complete jerk and snapped the sticks over his knee.

Either way, I'm happy for him.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by madmike

I'm not that worried about Ferland. The guy is the kind of player Burke/Treliving love. He'll be back as soon as there's a spot available.

The Flames really should not have signed as many veterans as they did to fill out their roster. I don't hate the signings themselves - just the fact they left almost no room for rookies.

In 2012-13 BB (before Burke) Hartley showed some initiative in Benching just re-signed Sarich along with Babchuk for most of the year ( he would rather play and lose with Derrek Smith and Butler)

If the organization makes him keep Setoguchi and Jones on the roster maybe he will have enough jam to put them in stands... but I imagine it would be a lot more difficult making that move against Burke than Feaster.

[sureLoss]

Wes Gilbertson @SUNGilbertson
#Flames C Sam Bennett is not with team in Winnipeg. No word why, but he has NOT been reassigned to junior.

Wes Gilbertson @SUNGilbertson
#Flames coach Bob Hartley will address Bennett's absence after morning skate.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Wes Gilbertson @SUNGilbertson
#Flames C Sam Bennett is not with team in Winnipeg. No word why, but he has NOT been reassigned to junior.

Wes Gilbertson @SUNGilbertson
#Flames coach Bob Hartley will address Bennett's absence after morning skate.

he is going back to junior...its best for everyone and there is no room

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

In 2012-13 BB (before Burke) Hartley showed some initiative in Benching just re-signed Sarich along with Babchuk for most of the year ( he would rather play and lose with Derrek Smith and Butler)

If the organization makes him keep Setoguchi and Jones on the roster maybe he will have enough jam to put them in stands... but I imagine it would be a lot more difficult making that move against Burke than Feaster.

Wrong. Burke would respect him for doing what he thought was right.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Gaudreau is already the biggest dog we have.
It will be a shame if Johnny or Sven are demoted.
The team made a mistake by signing so many vets.
Each deal can be rationalized by on its own, but when you add them all up it would have been much more prudent to let our 5-6 top prospects fight it out for 3-4 spots.
We could have always signed the likes of Setoguchi at a later date if things weren't working out.
I think you can do harm to a prospect by continually burying them in the minors, and the Flames have done it for years.
All the talk about a meritocracy will be total BS if those 12 vets on 1 way contracts all make the team on opening day.

I do not agree. The vets provide a safety net in case our rooks didn't/don't perform. There is no arguing that the youth has shown well. It is a great problem to have. Seto was signed cheap, and is not old. Can be traded or dropped with only a 750k risk. This was a good low risk potential fair reward signing.

If not Seto then who? Jones was already here (and even if over paid is under valued). What other whipping boy you got?

Relax, opening day rosters are not set in stone. That roster will have a number of changes over the year. Patience.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Wrong. Burke would respect him for doing what he thought was right.

Agreed. Plus, I think Hatrley is the kind of guy that does not care.

If you suck, Burke is going to fire you whether you do it your way or what you think his way is. So might as well run the horses you think will win you the race.

It would be a horrible shame if guys like Seto and Jones dress ahead of a dynamo like Johnny H.

The debate is moot. Last year everyone felt the same way about Moneyhands. Everything worked out great. I think Flames will do the right thing.