[News] Darren Dreger: "I’m confused by the direction of the Calgary Flames."

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Azure

Crosby has not been able to win a cup on his own. Best player that will play in the NHL in my lifetime, and he still isn't good enough to do it all alone.

On the other hand, a team like LA and Chicago have won 4 cups the last 4 years. What do they both have in common? Depth. Up and down the lineup they have great depth. LA had more of it last year, Chicago less. LA won. Chicago had more the year before. Depth, depth, depth.

Anyone with half a brain knows that a generational talent is not enough to win a Stanley Cup. You have a build a team around him.

The reason Dreger is pissed off is because he is obviously an Oiler fan, and the fact is the Flames rebuild is going a lot better. Dreger wanted the Flames to go out and make a big splash at free agency, and they really didn't. They filled some organizational holes and added some salary to stay above the cap floor. They never signed a David Clarkson 'disaster' type deal that will come back to haunt them in the future. They made some shrew signings that really allowed them to keep the rebuild going and possibly draft top 5 next year again. Might not be McDavid, but any of the top 5 guys would fast track the rebuild.

Flames were top 5 worst team in the league last year. By all accounts if you look at the standings, stats, etc, etc....they sucked. Yet, if you ask anyone that actually bothered to watch them the whole year, it was evident that they are a damn fun team to watch. They work hard, they play hard. They don't win many games, but man.....the effort. Post game thread after post game thread I would read seeing posters compliment the Flames on their hard work. That identity was created in 'one' year. The Oilers, who Dreger is quite obviously a fan of, still have zero identity, and no direction. They have no leadership, and shown zero improvement in the 5+ years that they have been rebuilding. Obviously this will piss Dreger off. That is why he lashes out against the Flames, because the rebuild is showing results so quickly.

I have said for years that Dreger is a moron with little to no actual insight of how the NHL works, and what actually goes on behind the scenes. His 'insider' status is limited, and he mostly just throws out crap hoping it sticks against the wall. In my books, his is on the same level as Eklund, but strangely enough if you asked Eklund about the Flames, he would be a hell of a lot more objective than Dreger will ever be.

As for Johnny Hockey, I would expect more comments like that. People that hate the Flames will be trying to find anything against our brightest prospect. Just goes to show how good he really is, and how good he will be.

Wow man you just unlocked hockey's biggest mystery. It takes more than one player to win a Championship. Unfortunately I've never heard anyone ever say that you can, including Dreger in this article. And yes depth is vital. My mind is blown.

[PeteMoss]

Flames have the lowest cap figure in the league.

They've spent $9 million less than Florida for god's sake. $10 million less than Carolina, $11.5 million less than Edmonton.

They have one player signed to a contract longer than 3 years (Stajan).

Hard to imagine a rebuild with more options than what the Flames have now.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I dunno. It sure didn't look like they tried all that hard to improve the team this offseason.

They didn't re-sign Chris Butler.

Cha Ching - points.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

Oilers..........Flames
Hall>Monahan 3 years younger
RNH<Gaudreau 3 years less pro experience
Eberle>Baertschi 2.5 years younger
Draisaitl<Bennett Same/Same
Perron=Backlund 1 year younger
Yakupov>Poirier (I love Poirier, but once Yak figures his stuff out he'll put up more points.) I don't think we know who either of them are yet.

Schultz<<Brodie
Nurse>>Wotherspoon (I'd only give Nurse 1 >)
Morincin ? Sieloff

Brossoit<<Ortio & Gillies (Ortio had a bad pre-season, but I still think he's miles ahead of Broissoit) Goalies are fickle it can change so fast

Interesting approach. I think it's too early to tell right now, but if I was an Oilers' fan I would be really uncomfortable with how the Flames' rebuild looks compared to theirs.

On Offense, The flames are nearly 3 years behind developmentally. And it seems the Flames and Oilers will be dressing near quality of young forwards. With Hall, Eberle, and RNH near the top of their development curves, and the Flames prospects at the bottom. It would be interesting to see all of these comparisons 3 years down the road and which ones hold up.

I think on D the one thing the flames have going for them despite their weak prospect pool is, I expect Gio, Russell, and Brodie to all still be key contributors to this team by the time they are good. So the Flames should not have to lean on their prospect pool as heavily, while the Oilers need prospects to develop now.

The way I look at it is what does a team need to be competitive

Flames
1.5 - 3 seasons of development for young forward
A first line RW
A great Shut down Dman
and a Break out goaltending performance from one of 4 guys

Oilers
2-4 years of development for D prospects
A first line center
2 top pairing dmen
and a Starting goalie (Can't see if being Fasth or Scrivens, so Brossoit or FAs?)

*and they might need some wingers that can backcheck too.

So
Forwards develop fast than D men, Advantage Flames
Top Wingers are easier to get outside of the draft, Advantage Flames
1 Top4 vs. 2 Top2. Advantage Flames
Hiller/Ramo/Ortio/Gilles vs Brossoit/Fasth/Scrivens. Advantage Flames

The Flames are closer than the Oilers.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Flames dominated the league for almost a decade and won the cup with no #1 pick.

They had a self inflicted dark age when currency made hockey in Calgary a money loser, but bounced back with another cup run and 5 years of respectability. Again, with no #1 pick.

Maybe they believed in their inpsirational superstar leader a bit too long, but they are back on track with some very cool players.

So even if the league was crooked, the lack of a generational talent may not hold this team back in the future. It would be cool though to have a Gretz/Lemieux/Crosby calibre guy on this team. Especially one with a scottish name.

Gary Roberts?

Al MacInnis?

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Pretty sure it's been discussed many times before here that every team sends a representative.

Which is still is not public. If (and I am not saying it is) the league was fudging the lottery, having representatives of the teams present means nothing. The teams are part of the league. That's like saying trust me, these guys who work for me witnessed it.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by redforever

Gary Roberts?

Al MacInnis?

He meant 1st overall

Gary was 12th, and Al 27th

Prior to Monahan, Calgary had never chose top 5

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

...Prior to Monahan, Calgary had never chose top 5

Monahan was selected #6. Prior to Bennett the Flames had never picked top-five.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Completely agree on both sentiments. Suspicions are natural because we are asked to trust a closed door draw. The league really should make the lottery draw public. It might even be fun to watch on TV.

The draw is closed to the public but attended by representatives by every NHL team. There is no way in hell 30 teams will agree with one another which of them is fortunate enough to receive the top pick every year. If the lottery were fixed, we would know it because more than a few teams wouldn't stand for it.

[Yrebmi]

Yeah, can't argue that. Still wish it was made public.


Sorry for the thread derail.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

He meant 1st overall

Gary was 12th, and Al 27th

Prior to Monahan at #6, Calgary had never chose top 5

Fixed it for you.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Yeah, can't argue that. Still wish it was made public.


Sorry for the thread derail.

I don't believe they did this year, but they put up a video of last year's draw on NHL.com. It doesn't make for entertaining watching because of the way it's done.

They put 14 balls into the lottery machine and draw 4 of them. That creates 1001 possible winning combinations. 1000 of those combinations are assigned to the 14 non-playoff teams based upon the percentage distribution set out by the league (1 combination would trigger a redraw if it were chosen). All 14 teams are provided with a spreadsheet showing all of those assignments.

The lottery drawing is conducted live in front of the representatives of the teams and once the 4th ball is drawn, everyone hurriedly searches the spreadsheet for the winner. It's about as interesting to watch as you would expect it to be.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by getbak

It's about as interesting to watch as you would expect it to be.

That would still be more interesting than watching Bill Daly, The Man Who Looks Like A Thumb, open a bunch of oversized envelopes one after another and read team names off of cue cards. I was sufficiently interested last summer to watch the lottery announcement on TSN. For making it in that time-wasting and idiotic way, the entire NHL should be penalized two minutes for delay of life.

If they wanted to broadcast the actual drawing of the numbers, here's a way they could make it at least slightly interesting:

First, assign the numbers in such a way that each team's winning combinations do not contain its initial draft order based on standings. I mean that the last-place team would not have any winning combinations containing 1, the second-last team would not have any combinations containing 2, and so on.

Second, when the first and second balls are drawn, announce which teams have been eliminated from the running. This will give die-hard fans of those teams something to cuss and moan about, and the remaining viewers will get a sense of hope and tension that is not quite 100% bogus.

Third, after two balls have been drawn, cut away to a graphic showing the current odds for each team. The easy way to do this would be to prepare a different graphic for each of the 14 x 13 possibilities. The graphics could be designed with generic text strings like $TEAM1 or $TEAM13, and the computer would substitute the correct team names based on that year' order of finish.

Fourth, after three balls have been drawn, put up a graphic showing each of the 11 numbers remaining, and which team will win in case each of those numbers is drawn. By this point, more than 3 teams will have been eliminated (because some teams only have one or two combinations out of the whole 1,001), and this graphic will make it clear who can still possibly win. For bonus points, someone should write an algorithm that distributes the numbers in such a way that there are always at least two possible winners at this stage. It would look silly and anticlimactic if all 11 numbers produced the same result.

The whole thing would take no more time than the current broadcast, but it would be more visually interesting, and remove any suspicion that the lottery is somehow rigged. (Die-hard conspiracy theorists excepted; but you will never please them.) It would take a few hours' preparation time for a programmer and a graphic designer, in exchange for a broadcast that some people would actually find more interesting than watching paint dry.

[badger89]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That would still be more interesting than watching Bill Daly, The Man Who Looks Like A Thumb, open a bunch of oversized envelopes one after another and read team names off of cue cards. I was sufficiently interested last summer to watch the lottery announcement on TSN. For making it in that time-wasting and idiotic way, the entire NHL should be penalized two minutes for delay of life.

If they wanted to broadcast the actual drawing of the numbers, here's a way they could make it at least slightly interesting:

First, assign the numbers in such a way that each team's winning combinations do not contain its initial draft order based on standings. I mean that the last-place team would not have any winning combinations containing 1, the second-last team would not have any combinations containing 2, and so on.

Second, when the first and second balls are drawn, announce which teams have been eliminated from the running. This will give die-hard fans of those teams something to cuss and moan about, and the remaining viewers will get a sense of hope and tension that is not quite 100% bogus.

Third, after two balls have been drawn, cut away to a graphic showing the current odds for each team. The easy way to do this would be to prepare a different graphic for each of the 14 x 13 possibilities. The graphics could be designed with generic text strings like $TEAM1 or $TEAM13, and the computer would substitute the correct team names based on that year' order of finish.

Fourth, after three balls have been drawn, put up a graphic showing each of the 11 numbers remaining, and which team will win in case each of those numbers is drawn. By this point, more than 3 teams will have been eliminated (because some teams only have one or two combinations out of the whole 1,001), and this graphic will make it clear who can still possibly win. For bonus points, someone should write an algorithm that distributes the numbers in such a way that there are always at least two possible winners at this stage. It would look silly and anticlimactic if all 11 numbers produced the same result.

The whole thing would take no more time than the current broadcast, but it would be more visually interesting, and remove any suspicion that the lottery is somehow rigged. (Die-hard conspiracy theorists excepted; but you will never please them.) It would take a few hours' preparation time for a programmer and a graphic designer, in exchange for a broadcast that some people would actually find more interesting than watching paint dry.

Doesn't sound bad, but you may be the only one who cares.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by driveway

We're rebuilding, play in the deepest conference hockey's seen in ... God, decades? And are looking at two or three of the best draft picks in the last five years being available.

The idea of building a culture is important, but culture doesn't win. Players win, and the best players win more.

Yep. If culture was more imprtant than talent, the Coyotes and Predators would be the flagship franchises in the NHL. That's what teams with great culture and coaching, but little elite talent, look like.

And people are kidding themselves if they think the players don't know the score. The Flames can easily afford to spend to the cap, but they're icing a team that barely makes the cap floor. The players undestand why. They're playing to win every game, but they know management is not icing the best lineup it can.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by badger89

Doesn't sound bad, but you may be the only one who cares.

If TSN cares enough to put the lottery on the air, I suspect they care enough to have an interest in how it is presented.

But that's OK, that's irrelevant. I understand that you're actually telling me to STFU. I'm sorry that it was too much trouble for you to skip reading a post that didn't interest you.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

First, assign the numbers in such a way that each team's winning combinations do not contain its initial draft order based on standings. I mean that the last-place team would not have any winning combinations containing 1, the second-last team would not have any combinations containing 2, and so on.

Second, when the first and second balls are drawn, announce which teams have been eliminated from the running. This will give die-hard fans of those teams something to cuss and moan about, and the remaining viewers will get a sense of hope and tension that is not quite 100% bogus.

Was going to write something similar (and I appreciate your efforts)

I don't think the math would work for the first part, but I don't think it needs to.

Simply start with each team's odds and update them as each ball is drawn.

Agree it would be nice if it wasn't decided before the last number, but I don't think that would be entirely avoidable either (though an unlikely event)

[badger89]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If TSN cares enough to put the lottery on the air, I suspect they care enough to have an interest in how it is presented.

But that's OK, that's irrelevant. I understand that you're actually telling me to STFU. I'm sorry that it was too much trouble for you to skip reading a post that didn't interest you.

Apologies if that came off as rude. It wasn't intentional. I just don't think most care about the presentation of the draft order. A few people probably do and your proposal would make it more interesting, but I still couldn't be bothered to tune in.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If TSN cares enough to put the lottery on the air, I suspect they care enough to have an interest in how it is presented.

But that's OK, that's irrelevant. I understand that you're actually telling me to STFU. I'm sorry that it was too much trouble for you to skip reading a post that didn't interest you.

I've been advocating a public drawing since the Crosby draft. That draft draw drew a lot of interest, for those who say you would be the only one wanting one. Like you say it would need to start by eliminating teams until only one was left to make it good TV.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Which is still is not public. If (and I am not saying it is) the league was fudging the lottery, having representatives of the teams present means nothing. The teams are part of the league. That's like saying trust me, these guys who work for me witnessed it.

Doesn't really make sense. Landing a player like Crosby has massive financial benefits to a team. You think 29 teams are just going to say "ya no problem give Crosby to Pittsburgh" Everyone wants to win. Even if this was the case you realy think no one would have said something by now? I'm gonna need a little more than an Internet conspiracy theory to believe it's rigged.