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Old 10-03-2014, 06:50 PM   #841
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Originally Posted by GGG View Post
If someone rejects joining the guardians and no one joins it confirms what GP, Starseed, and ECF are saying that they chose to join.

If another guardian appears then it wouldn't have been voluntary and then it's more likely that it's a cult and their victory conditions have changed. We just need to be clear and convincing that anyone who joins gets lynched next.
Interesting. But GGG before you want to lynch the next person who joins. I will breakdown the scenarios.

1) If these are invitations are from the mafia and can't be refused.
lynching the next person is too easy, they'll handpick someone and we'll do the dirty work for them. They get a free daytime kill.

2) If these invitations are from the mafia and can be refused
if we say we are lynching the next person then nobody will except and nothing happens*. Can a person who refused even say they refused? We don't know this yet because nobody has said they refused.

3) If these invitations are not from mafia and can't be refused
if we say we are lynching the next person, then this person suddenly has a lot of power and his/her decision will be final, one single vote

4) If these invitations are not from mafia and can be refused
if we say we are lynching the next person, then if scum is chosen they will simply refuse and town will be confused due to inaction*. This is probably the worse scenario

5) If these invitations can be from anyone who has that power
then the next person who can't refuse will be lynched. Or everyone will refuse and nothing happens*.

*Unless something happens when someone refuses, we don't know this either.

What do you think is most likely?
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:02 PM   #842
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Interesting. But GGG before you want to lynch the next person who joins. I will breakdown the scenarios.

1) If these are invitations are from the mafia and can't be refused.
lynching the next person is too easy, they'll handpick someone and we'll do the dirty work for them. They get a free daytime kill.

2) If these invitations are from the mafia and can be refused
if we say we are lynching the next person then nobody will except and nothing happens*. Can a person who refused even say they refused? We don't know this yet because nobody has said they refused.

3) If these invitations are not from mafia and can't be refused
if we say we are lynching the next person, then this person suddenly has a lot of power and his/her decision will be final, one single vote

4) If these invitations are not from mafia and can be refused
if we say we are lynching the next person, then if scum is chosen they will simply refuse and town will be confused due to inaction*. This is probably the worse scenario

5) If these invitations can be from anyone who has that power
then the next person who can't refuse will be lynched. Or everyone will refuse and nothing happens*.

*Unless something happens when someone refuses, we don't know this either.

What do you think is most likely?
2/4 all three have said it was voluntary to join and could refuse.

Your other scenarios don't really make sense to me. A person is asked to join, they don't, they report in tomorrow with what happened. This provides us nothing in terms of mafia/town relations but is an anti cult move.

So far we have
Wood
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Committed to lynching anyone who joins a group. Does anyone else want to commit to this.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:05 PM   #843
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2/4 all three have said it was voluntary to join and could refuse.

Your other scenarios don't really make sense to me. A person is asked to join, they don't, they report in tomorrow with what happened. This provides us nothing in terms of mafia/town relations but is an anti cult move.

So far we have
Wood
GGG
Committed to lynching anyone who joins a group. Does anyone else want to commit to this.
I will join if you commit to my committee of voting for anyone who drops the hammer without letting the lynchie have a final say.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:07 PM   #844
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Twilight portal - how do you guys know the messages from the twilight portal were not mafia trying to create confusion? Did it seem genuine? What reasons did they give for their list?

Short answer: We don't know if they are mafia.

As I'm not allowed to direct quote what was said (against the rules as per Mazrim) I'm going to paraphrase as accurately as I can.

Delgar asked if MT1 and MT2 were aligned with the light. The answer provided by MT1 was that they are aligned with the light.

When they provided the list of suspects, they said that this was a list of three names to be interrogated. They did not have any special information nor did they know the alignment of the names listed, but they had suspicions about them that were not strong at this point but we should use it to question and apply pressure to them. They did not have any added information to provide about the names...yet.

Near the end of the chat, Master of Twilight #2 said that all will be revealed in time.

Master of Twilight #1 also said they know nothing of the Eternals
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:07 PM   #845
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At least for the next couple votes.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:07 PM   #846
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GGG: you said yourself "If another guardian appears then it wouldn't have been voluntary" so that is still a possibility is it not? What if these ones were voluntary but as the cult grows it is no longer voluntary.

and you forgot my asterisk part

*Unless something happens when someone refuses, we don't know this either.

Maybe it's not simply, a person is asked to join, they don't, they report in tomorrow with what happened. What if they are ramifications for not accepting?
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:09 PM   #847
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I missed the twilight thread, could you reveal how many posters actually posted? Was many people in on this, or just 1 or 2?
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:09 PM   #848
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Gawd my brain hurts. What if we don't lynch the next person who joins and if my assumption is correct it would be for the Guardian group and they accept.
That would leave the two factions in a tied stalemate then we refuse to join.

Essentially we are giving the finger to both groups then.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:09 PM   #849
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Twilight portal - how do you guys know the messages from the twilight portal were not mafia trying to create confusion? Did it seem genuine? What reasons did they give for their list?
We don't

They were honest in saying they had no additional info in there speculation. They did imply they would get special info. My summary when the day began is about the best I could do. They gave no reasons. In my opinion they are just guessing as they went at best 1/3 with myself and devo(flipped) being town.

I am concerned that the MOTs are the cult leaders. It would kind of make sense in limiting the scope of the game instead of it all just screwing with us. We definately need more people on at lynch and to give a time for the lynch so we can all be at the portal.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:12 PM   #850
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There is a punishment for not accepting. Not sure what it is though.

Also if I rejected, the offer would be made to someone else and I didn't want it falling into the wrong hands.

I don't think the "leader" knows the affiliations of people in the game.
I must have had a much different message. There was no threat given to me. It was loaded with shed light on the darkness type flavor text.

I also was not told that it would be offered to someone else.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:13 PM   #851
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I missed the twilight thread, could you reveal how many posters actually posted? Was many people in on this, or just 1 or 2?
4 or 5 plus MOTs
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:14 PM   #852
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So the Eternal and Guardian consequences are different.

We need to hear from Matt. Was he threatened if he did not accept?
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:16 PM   #853
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4 or 5 plus MOTs
Okay, I was thinking there may have been a chance that mafia wasn't even aware of the twilight thread. With 4 or 5 posters, I assume a couple lurkers, plus 2 MOTs it's probably a decent chance that at least one scum saw.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:16 PM   #854
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I have thought about the cult angle as we'll but don't think the numbers add up. If there are two members a day joining a cult the town will run out way too quickly. It is the same as the two shot single faction mafia.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:16 PM   #855
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I missed the twilight thread, could you reveal how many posters actually posted? Was many people in on this, or just 1 or 2?
The following posters asked questions to the MT1 and MT2 during the time the thread was open:

Drury18
GGG
Delgar
devo22
formulate
mrkajz44

It showed as 80 or so people viewing the thread, although you didn't have to sign in to read the thread so you can't see names or if it was game players/CP members looking in.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:20 PM   #856
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It showed as 80 or so people viewing the thread, although you didn't have to sign in to read the thread so you can't see names or if it was game players/CP members looking in.
That seems like an excessive number for something that it seems a lot of us missed. I'm guessing the observers knew about it now. Any precedence to give outside observers some form of way to play in any of that mafia wiki?
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:28 PM   #857
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So the Eternal and Guardian consequences are different.

We need to hear from Matt. Was he threatened if he did not accept?
It said that if I refuse or expose it they will make the offer to someone else and I will become a powerless individual.

The whole message spoke of power though so I am not sure if they meant powerless as in I would be just another cog in the wheel or if they meant I would have my own power removed.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:41 PM   #858
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It said that if I refuse or expose it they will make the offer to someone else and I will become a powerless individual.
So you were able to reveal you had the offer?

Why didn't you come into this thread, explain you got an offer and let the town have more information before accepting/rejecting the offer?

Right now, at least your group, sounds like they blackmailed you into it. Not exactly a good sounding group to be a part of.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:47 PM   #859
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It does sound like blackmail, but they offered partnership in a group which I wanted to explore and the promise that my victory conditions wouldn't change. I couldn't see a downside. And apparently neither could the other two who had a similar offer.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:51 PM   #860
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The question becomes do we believe matt, s tarseed, and ECF that the victory conditions haven't changed.
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