Another Teacher Sex Scandal

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

You do realize that you're perpetuating the same double-standard that you're condemning?

see below

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

No my point is that some people will have a different opinion of the situation if it is two male teachers and one female student. Some people view this situations as "a boy living out every male's fantasy".

That point of view is incorrect.

This situation is wrong, whether it is 2 males/2 female or 2 females/1 male is wrong.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

Very true. Statutorily. The 'victim' loses their right to determine if they're actually a victim or not.

Its a tough one because this kid states that it was consensual but statutory legislation is in place to protect others from the same situation who do not consent.

So they should be charged with rape then, IMO.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

No my point is that some people will have a different opinion of the situation if it is two male teachers and one female student. Some people view this situations as "a boy living out every male's fantasy".

That point of view is incorrect.

This situation is wrong, whether it is 2 males/2 female or 2 females/1 male is wrong.

Of course. But then what happens if the female student does the same thing and goes back to school and high fives all her friends and tells people it was consensual.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So they should be charged with rape then, IMO.

Normally we'd be in agreement, but the student in question has told anyone who has asked that it was consensual.

The boy had bragged to other students about the encounter, which he told investigators was consensual, the television station reported.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/10/02...e-with-student

His teachers should have known better.

[Arya Stark]

I'm not really sure why I should be shamed because at 16 I would have wanted to have a threesome with my female teachers.

If it doesn't effect me emotionally or physically and I enjoy sex and at 16 I make the choice to have sex with a teacher how am I the victim?

We really need to stop looking at sex like it's some evil act that only people in love can do.

If I am 16 and want to have sex with a teacher, don't paint me as a victim. Charge the teacher because what she did was wrong because she was in a position of authority but don't look at me like the victim and don't shame men who wish they were in that kids spot at 16.

Because I do wish I was having threesomes with teachers at 16.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

Of course. But then what happens if the female student does the same thing and goes back to school and high fives all her friends and tells people it was consensual.

Normally we'd be in agreement, but the student in question has told anyone who has asked that it was consensual.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/10/02...e-with-student

His teachers should have known better.

IMO, individuals this age do not always know what is best for them. I think back to a hormone filled 16 yr UCB. He was an idiot.

If this is a female and she goes back and high fives everyone, it is till rape. I don't think that it matters that the individual question says that it was consensual. The situation/individuals involved precludes him from making that decision, no?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

I'm not really sure why I should be shamed because at 16 I would have wanted to have a threesome with my female teachers.

If it doesn't effect me emotionally or physically and I enjoy sex and at 16 I make the choice to have sex with a teacher how am I the victim?

We really need to stop looking at sex like it's some evil act that only people in love can do.

If I am 16 and want to have sex with a teacher, don't paint me as a victim. Charge the teacher because what she did was wrong because she was in a position of authority but don't look at me like the victim and don't shame men who wish they were in that kids spot at 16.

Because I do wish I was having threesomes with teachers at 16.

Is you opinion the same if 2 male teachers had a 3some with a 16 yr old female or 2 male teachers had a 3some with a 16 yr old male?

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Is you opinion the same if 2 male teachers had a 3some with a 16 yr old female or 2 male teachers had a 3some with a 16 yr old male?

If it is consensual then of course it is, why would it be different?

If I was a female and my fantasy was to sleep with two male teachers then yeah it would be 100% fine to me.

It sounds like sexism to me when women can't even admit they like sex as much as men because of these attitudes. If I want to have sex with two women, why can't a women say she wants to have sex with two men? Because she'll be slut shamed because of these attitudes that sex is some sort of sacred act for a women.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

If it is consensual then of course it is, why would it be different?

If I was a female and my fantasy was to sleep with two male teachers then yeah it would be 100% fine to me.

It sounds like sexism to me when women can't even admit they like sex as much as men because of these attitudes. If I want to have sex with two women, why can't a women say she wants to have sex with two men? Because she'll be slut shamed because of these attitudes that sex is some sort of sacred act for a women.

The issue here isn't about sex being bad or slut shaming, or boys being boys.


The issue is about protecting people that aren't on an even footing. There is a reason, that sex with a 16 yr old is wrong when you are in a power position.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

IMO, individuals this age do not always know what is best for them. I think back to a hormone filled 16 yr UCB. He was an idiot.

If this is a female and she goes back and high fives everyone, it is till rape. I don't think that it matters that the individual question says that it was consensual. The situation/individuals involved precludes him from making that decision, no?

Werent we all?

I guess where I have issues is that the penalty for rape are very severe, as they should be, but in this instance we're involved in a gray area.

If this was two women who were not his teachers all would be well in the world, or, hell, he may well have been accused of raping them as opposed to the other way around.

Whats the defining factor? That he is male or that he is a minor? Or that they're his teachers?

So how severe should the punishment be?

Dont get me wrong. There can and should be punishment, but what should it be? Do they have to spend 10 years in jail?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

Werent we all?

My wife says I still am.

I guess where I have issues is that the penalty for rape are very severe, as they should be, but in this instance we're involved in a gray area.

If this was two women who were not his teachers all would be well in the world, or, hell, he may well have been accused of raping them as opposed to the other way around.

See I don't see it as a grey area. The law (I believe) says that individuals that are in a position of power cannot engage in sex with a 16 yr old. I reckon it is black and white. It might be grey if these were to substitutes that had worked at the school once, but the "relationship/arrangement" had been made at a later date.

Whats the defining factor? That he is male or that he is a minor? Or that they're his teachers?

In my eyes it is that they are teachers.

So how severe should the punishment be?

Dont get me wrong. There can and should be punishment, but what should it be? Do they have to spend 10 years in jail

I don't now to be honest, I am not familiar with the current judicial view on punishment of rape. I will say that it should be substantial, as this is an activity that should be discouraged from happening.

[Arya Stark]

Calling this rape is a slap in the face to people who have actually been raped. Like held down, and by raped by force. This wasn't rape.

[CaptainCrunch]

Not every situation is the same and you can never be sure, was he coerced? we don't know, were the promise of good grades hung over his head? we're not sure.

But not all of these teacher molest students are of the penthouse fantasy variety, and we've seen where some of these things have turned into nightmares for the victim.

The law has to be applied consistantly for all of these, there can't be a judge to victim high five exception in this law.

Judge - "So was it awesome"

Kid - "Hells yeah"

Judge - "Awesome, case dismissed"

Hyper speed high five.

As well if you flip the situation to two male teachers having sex with lets say a female volleyball player are we saying the same thing? "Oh yeah, high fives all around" Or is there always going to be a hint of something sinister because men are stereotyped as being more threatening in these situations?

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

The issue here isn't about sex being bad or slut shaming, or boys being boys.


The issue is about protecting people that aren't on an even footing. There is a reason, that sex with a 16 yr old is wrong when you are in a power position.

It is wrong on the teacher's part, I agree. The kid though in this case is not a victim and did nothing wrong and will not be emotionally scarred like some people who think sex is a sacred act would like us to believe.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Calling this rape is a slap in the face to people who have actually been raped. Like held down, and by raped by force. This wasn't rape.

Rape doesn't fall under one definition.

If someone is put in a situation of coercion for example its implied that if you don't sleep with your boss you'll lose your job. That's rape

Not all rapes involve guys in sky masks breaking into houses or dragging co-eds into the bushes.

If someone plies you with alcohol and uses your lapsed judgement or roofies you or whatever, that's rape.

Its not a simple thing to define.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Calling this rape is a slap in the face to people who have actually been raped. Like held down, and by raped by force. This wasn't rape.

Oh I am sorry where you there?

Do you know all the details?

A discussion of rape and what constitutes rape does not diminish those experience of those that have been raped.

In fact, I would suggest that open dialogue about rape might make individuals that have been raped more willing to come forward. Perhaps they won't see themselves as having done something wrong.

Discussion of a serious topic can only help that serious topic.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

It is wrong on the teacher's part, I agree. .

I am glad you agree.

The kid though in this case is not a victim and did nothing wrong and will not be emotionally scarred like some people who think sex is a sacred act would like us to believe

How do you know how this will affect him in the future?

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Oh I am sorry where you there?

Do you know all the details?

A discussion of rape and what constitutes rape does not diminish those experience of those that have been raped.

In fact, I would suggest that open dialogue about rape might make individuals that have been raped more willing to come forward. Perhaps they won't see themselves as having done something wrong.

Discussion of a serious topic can only help that serious topic.

Were they charged with rape?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

It is wrong on the teacher's part, I agree. The kid though in this case is not a victim and did nothing wrong and will not be emotionally scarred like some people who think sex is a sacred act would like us to believe.

How do you know that?

You don't

There have been lots and lots of victims out there who claimed that they weren't raped so that they wouldn't have to face the social stigmas that go with rapes and rape situations where they believed they'll be labeled a slut or whore, or stigmitized by their families or their communities, and they wish it would just go away.

And we read about these people over and over again where they were basically coerced by someone in a authority position and they go right off of the rails and it takes them years to get their lives back together.

You can even go to the extreme in a teacher situation where a teacher used her authority and sex and implied other things to get her students to kill her husband.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Rape doesn't fall under one definition.

Its not a simple thing to define.

This is basically what I'm trying to say. All cases are different but treated the same under the law.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I am glad you agree.

How do you know how this will affect him in the future?

I also agree, the teachers are in the wrong and can, should and will be punished, my only discussion was in the severity of the punishment based on the circumstances of the case.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Were they charged with rape?

It doesn't appear that they were.


Does that mean we shouldn't have this discussion? I don't know the law in that particular state. Does it have the same laws?

What are the local laws in that state?


I know that in my exchange with Locke, I had the Criminal Code of Canada in mind.