RIP You Love You Lose thread

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SebC

While I would not consider myself one of those people (I think that when we censor women's bodies, it is detrimental to the well-being of women and society)

Doesn't your belief that women should have to cover up their bodies if they don't want to be harassed or assaulted kind of contradict this?

[photon]

Originally Posted by SebC

What I view as the morally correct choice is not determined by ownership.

Of course not, we can't control your morality or what choices you make with respect to your morality. Just like you can't (and shouldn't expect to) control our morality and what choices we make.

The difference is our morality and the choices we make from that determine what goes on here.

Originally Posted by SebC

I think that when we censor women's bodies, it is detrimental to the well-being of women and society

I'd agree with that. We're not advocating society censoring women's bodies. There's a number of rules here that I would never want applied to society in general.

[The Familia]

Why not close down the off topic forum completely? This way no one can be offended by anything! Keep the forum strictly hockey and sports. If you want an off topic forum than be prepared for topics and issues that are controversial and potentially "offensive". Don't open threads that may be offensive to you. I find it funny how some people are quick to support the closing of the thread because it had suddenly become offensive in their opinion, yet at the same time, bash and demean the OP (and others) on their personal ideas and opinions on the thread. A little hypocritical?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Why not close down the off topic forum completely? This way no one can be offended by anything! Keep the forum strictly hockey and sports. If you want an off topic forum than be prepared for topics and issues that are controversial and potentially "offensive". Don't open threads that may be offensive to you. I find it funny how some people are quick to support the closing of the thread because it had suddenly become offensive in their opinion, yet at the same time, bash and demean the OP (and others) on their personal ideas and opinions on the thread. A little hypocritical?

Why not close down the off topic forum? Because it's a huge part of this forum and it clearly has some of the best discussions around, and is probably the best local site on the internet for Calgarians?

I'm pretty sure they are prepared to deal with threads that are controversial and potentially offensive, and that's exactly what happened here.

[The Familia]

^ I agree with you that the off topic forum is one of the best. In fact, I usually read it more than the other forums. I'm saying people keep getting butthurt about everything which is ruining it for everyone else.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by The Familia

^ I agree with you that the off topic forum is one of the best. In fact, I usually read it more than the other forums. I'm saying people keep getting butthurt about everything which is ruining it for everyone else.

What's being ruined and for who? I think this was a very positive step forward, and it actually, imo, had the opposite affect you're claiming.

CP took a step towards inclusiveness for women, and guys looking to stare at sexy girly pics can still do that, as well, on pretty much the entire rest of the internet.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by The Familia

^ I agree with you that the off topic forum is one of the best. In fact, I usually read it more than the other forums. I'm saying people keep getting butthurt about everything which is ruining it for everyone else.

Seems the only people who are butthurt are the ones upset the thread was deleted.

Ironic, really.

[The Familia]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Seems the only people who are butthurt are the ones upset the thread was deleted.

Ironic, really.

Just being the vocal minority I guess

[The Familia]

Originally Posted by flameswin

What's being ruined and for who? I think this was a very positive step forward, and it actually, imo, had the opposite affect you're claiming.

CP took a step towards inclusiveness for women, and guys looking to stare at sexy girly pics can still do that, as well, on pretty much the entire rest of the internet.

Again it's not about the pics, never about that. I could care less about the pics. It's about how it was removed. Contrary to you, the poll suggested a lot of people cared enough to vote keep it as is.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Why not close down the off topic forum completely? This way no one can be offended by anything! Keep the forum strictly hockey and sports. If you want an off topic forum than be prepared for topics and issues that are controversial and potentially "offensive". Don't open threads that may be offensive to you. I find it funny how some people are quick to support the closing of the thread because it had suddenly become offensive in their opinion, yet at the same time, bash and demean the OP (and others) on their personal ideas and opinions on the thread. A little hypocritical?

Couple things
- You make it seem like the thread in question was some sort of forum for topical and at times controversial discussion. It wasn't. It was a thread full of scantily clad women. I visited it. I enjoyed it. But let's call it what it was and not pretend than it was anything more than it was.
- I think for many people when they read some of the concerns expressed by women in our community, and then looked at that thread again with some new perspective - it no longer felt like a positive part or progressive part of the community.

Changing your mind on something isn't being hypocritical. It is have the self-awareness to realize that at times - you may have had it wrong.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Again it's not about the pics, never about that. I could care less about the pics. It's about how it was removed. Contrary to you, the poll suggested a lot of people cared enough to vote keep it as is.

Holy crap I'm getting tired of saying this same stuff
- The vote was not binding. It was a part of the moderation teams efforts to get input from the community.
- We took a lot of time to gather input, here POVs, and discuss before arriving at a decision

So what exactly is the problem with "how it was removed". You make it sound like it was some rush to judgement or knee jerk decision. It wasn't. Period.

[nik-]

I'm not a fan that it was removed, not that I found the thread necessary, or was even in it that much, I just didn't really like the concept of taking people's opinion on it and then just removing it anyway. It feels a little disingenuous. I would have preferred that it was just removed if that was the desire.

I also like that CP has historically been a very lightly moderated forum, and is, in a way, policed by member acceptance and criticism of unacceptable behavior. I just hope this isn't a indicator of a more heavy handed approach incoming.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm not a fan that it was removed, not that I found the thread necessary, or was even in it that much, I just didn't really like the concept of taking people's opinion on it and then just removing it anyway. It feels a little disingenuous. I would have preferred that it was just removed if that was the desire.

This more than any other decision in the past was done only AFTER engaging the community. There was a wide variety of opinion - and we listened to them all.

I really don't get this mindset. I think some of you think we started that thread knowing what our outcome or decision was already. We didn't.

The biggest mistake I clearly made was adding a poll because even though we stated NUMEROUS times that it was not binding, and that it would not be the sole factor in any decision - some people can't seem to get past it.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by GGG

http://www.apega.ca/pdf/SalarySurvey/VPS2014.pdf

Take a look at page 136 of the document. In this past survey there does not appear to be a statically significant difference between male and female compensation or a trend at which levels each gender makes more.

Although one factor that may not be apparent is that a greater % of women work at the producers rather than epc or fab. Since producers pay more generally in terms of total compensation there may be a hidden under payment of female engineers though I unsure if the survey data would have a large enough sample size.

I have no idea how you managed to spin the fact that women take more than their fair share of the best and highest paying jobs as that they could be underpaid.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm not a fan that it was removed, not that I found the thread necessary, or was even in it that much, I just didn't really like the concept of taking people's opinion on it and then just removing it anyway. It feels a little disingenuous. I would have preferred that it was just removed if that was the desire.

I also like that CP has historically been a very lightly moderated forum, and is, in a way, policed by member acceptance and criticism of unacceptable behavior. I just hope this isn't a indicator of a more heavy handed approach incoming.

Ugh, the intent, execution and aftermath of the discussion and poll needs to be stickied at this point, lol.

You may see it that way, but the reality is if our mods wanted to discuss this behind closed doors and then delete the thread, they clearly would have just done that.

There was nothing disingenuous about it. You may think they had already made up their minds and weren't going to listen to anyone, but that's because you're focusing too much on the poll.

I'm not a mod and I don't know what discussions they had, but if I was a betting man, I would imagine CP's very vocal female members in the discussion likely led to the poll becoming more moot than they may have originally thought it would be. As opposed to them putting up a poll that they had no intention of caring about, regardless of anything, like you guys keep repeating.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

This more than any other decision in the past was done only AFTER engaging the community. There was a wide variety of opinion - and we listened to them all.

I really don't get this mindset. I think some of you think we started that thread knowing what our outcome or decision was already. We didn't.

The biggest mistake I clearly made was adding a poll because even though we stated NUMEROUS times that it was not binding, and that it would not be the sole factor in any decision - some people can't seem to get past it.

Why should they get past it? You started the poll to gain an overall view on the thread. Majority said let it live, you went the other way. Of course you're going to get folks upset about it. Nature of the beast.

Binding or not, the mass spoke and you went the other way, now you have to deal with the "whining" and the rhetoric. Because you involved them in the decision in the first place, when really, you didn't need to at all.

What I really think happened here is you guys thought it was going to be a landslide in favor of removal and it backfired. Maybe thinking the public opinion would do the dirty work for you. I would have went that way too if it was my decision. Why take ALL of the hate when you can just say "Hey! Everyone voted to remove the thread, so we are abiding by the voters of this forum".

So yeah, adding the poll was a mistake from that perspective.

[photon]

Originally Posted by nik-

I just didn't really like the concept of taking people's opinion on it and then just removing it anyway. It feels a little disingenuous.

It's only disingenuous if we said that the poll's results would dictate the actions but intended to ignore the results of the poll from the start. But we said all along the poll was for information, so it's not disingenuous. If it feels that way it's because of expectations that we didn't give.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Why should they get past it? You started the poll to gain an overall view on the thread. Majority said let it live, you went the other way. Of course you're going to get folks upset about it. Nature of the beast.

Binding or not, the mass spoke and you went the other way, now you have to deal with the "whining" and the rhetoric. Because you involved them in the decision in the first place, when really, you didn't need to at all.

What I really think happened here is you guys thought it was going to be a landslide in favor of removal and it backfired. Maybe thinking the public opinion would do the dirty work for you. I would have went that way too if it was my decision. Why take ALL of the hate when you can just say "Hey! Everyone voted to remove the thread, so we are abiding by the voters of this forum".

So yeah, adding the poll was a mistake from that perspective.

None of that is true. You can believe or not but it is simply false. And frankly insulting. But good to know how you feel about the mod team here.

[photon]

Originally Posted by dammage79

What I really think happened here is you guys thought it was going to be a landslide in favor of removal and it backfired.

Lol not likely, I don't see how any sane person would think it would have be a landslide in favour.

Personally I'd appreciate it if you'd stop telling me what my thoughts and motivations are about something despite what I've actually said about my thoughts and motivations. If you want to know, ask me, but please don't tell me.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

None of that is true. You can believe or not but it is simply false. And frankly insulting. But good to know how you feel about the mod team here.

Sorry you find it insulting. It's just an observation after seeing how everything that's been going down and being dealt with these last few days.

Bottom line is, what happened is obviously an unpopular move by a majority of posters on the site. Not because of the content but how the decision was levied. And now we're in the midst of the fallout from it.

I take issue with any similar process in life when a decision was handed down they way it was here.

People would be riled up and P/O'ed if the Government asked if they should get rid of health care and the majority of opinion says no and they do it anyways.

Not that health care and the material in question are the same by any stretch, just using it as an example.