[PGT] Coyotes Set Attendance Record. Flames win 4-3!

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by dino7c

what about standing in front of the net on the PP, go look at the 1st goal

So standing in front of the net is like confession? Go once or twice and all your sins are forgiven?

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Drury18

I have to pipe in here about Sieloff and the few posters commenting about how terrible he is.

No, Sieloff isn't playing all that great. Let's keep in mind, a year ago he had a very real possibility of dying from a staph infection and then an allergic reaction to the medication they gave him for the infection. This isn't an exaggeration, his infection was that severe where he it could have killed him had he not gotten proper treatment as fast as he did. It wasn't a separated shoulder or torn knee where he could still work out and keep in a game shape, he was then unable to perform any physical activity for 8 weeks (anything that would cause him to break a sweat) and that was after being immobile for a month between the hospital treatments and his at home treatments. And staph infection treatments aren't just an Advil, it's a drug cocktail that make you feel like crap, usually lose weight as you feel sick and don't eat/vomit and take away all your energy. Chances are even if he did want to do something, he wouldn't have been able to. He lost muscle and weight during this time and he's only been "full" training to make up for it since June-ish.

Also keep in mind, he hasn't seen any in game action at this level as he only got 2 games with Abbotsford before getting the infection. He's never played at the AHL or NHL level before. He is no different then Sam Bennett right now for NHL experience. Fresh out of the OHL if you will as that was the last league he had regular time. He also hasn't generally seen any game action in probably 18 months as the last time he played regularly was April 2013.

So yea, when you want to judge how he's playing, please keep that in mind. He does have high expectations of him and I have no doubt he will reach them, but he's lost development time and has to catch up. We can't expect him to play at an elite level at this point, that's unrealistic.

Which made it all the more laughable when posters were plugging him into the Flames NHL roster this off season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

I don't think expecting some consistency is being harsh. He really did have an up and down game, and for a player hoping to crack the lineup he can't afford to be wildly inconsistent in three periods. You want to see guys that are ready, look at Granlund and Reinhart. Extremely consistent, giving the coach a performance he can count on, as that what a coach is looking for; a performance that is going to be there almost every time the coach calls the name. Baertschi has improved in certain aspects of his game, but he does not yet appear to have that level of consistency in his performance that can be counted on to the same level of some of the other prospects.

It all depends on what you mean by "consistency," but it also applies to what type of player you wish to critique. I think we tend to forget that Baertschi was not a top-ten pick in his draft year. He has all world skill, and were he able to translate that skill level to a Granlund or Reinhart range of consistency, then he would have been a lottery pick, and likely already playing in the NHL.

It may be that in the end, Baertschi is a player similar in this respect to Glencross—an effective top six player who can and will be productive, but one that will frequently appear "disinterested," "inconsistent," or "lazy." I think you greatly exaggerate how much of a problem this is for his development (he is certainly not "wildly inconsistent"). For me, I am very pleased to see that he looks much stronger, more confident, and seems to be making smarter plays so far this preseason. This is all very good news.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

What game were you watching? I saw a guy show up for overtime after floating his way through 3 periods.

Speaking of Glencross, I am also a little bewildered by one or two comments about how much frustration his own level of "disinterest" seems to have caused. Seriously? It's the preseason and Glencross has nothing to prove. I'm not sure why people would expect something different, or why they would have a problem with him easing his way toward mid-season form ... There is a reason why it is called "mid season form."

[Poe969]

For me the biggest issue with Glencross being "disinterested" is frustrating because he's apparently supposed to be a leader. We've heard that this camp is one of the best we've ever had and there are younger guys pushing for every spot, I'd think everyone there should be either playing to prove something to the coaches or playing to prove what it takes to make the team.

The thing is, this isn't new for Glencross. He gets ripped by people on here all the time and he's been called out by the media too, the guy is supposed to be a leader on the team and he's supposed to set an example. This also doesn't bode well for Hartley's coaching style of giving it 100% because if Glencross can go out and just play the way he did with the younger kids watching then they'll think it's ok.

I think the term "mid season form" is more about skill, not about effort.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It all depends on what you mean by "consistency," but it also applies to what type of player you wish to critique.

I define consistency as providing a performance that does not very greatly during an extended period of time. Consistency is knowing that you put a player out on the ice he is going to perform in a given manner and execute certain duties each and every time. This is also what coaches expect when they select players for their team.

I think you greatly exaggerate how much of a problem this is for his development (he is certainly not "wildly inconsistent").

No, I don't. Being a dominant player during one period, then being difficult to pick out in the next, is the textbook definition of wildly inconsistent. I think coaches can accept some variance in performance from game-to-game, but when that variance extends to shift-to-shift, the player becomes a wild card and untrustworthy. Baertschi looked good in the first, dominant in the second, and non-existent in the third. I don't think he even got a shift in OT. I'm sure Hartley was tickled by the second period but would have preferred three periods like the first over the performance he got throughout the game.

For me, I am very pleased to see that he looks much stronger, more confident, and seems to be making smarter plays so far this preseason. This is all very good news.

Baertschi does look bigger and stronger, which is a huge positive. I'm also glad you're happy, but I doubt the coaches share the excitement. Baertschi is competing against other players in this camp and some of them are showing to be further ahead in development, much of which is based on their consistency. Of the prospects I think look ready to play in the NHL I would say that Granlund, Reinhart, and Gaudreau are all well ahead of Baertschi at this point, and I think Gaudreau should spend a couple months in the minors himself. Baertschi has shown improvement, but he's still lacking the consistency that makes a guy a NHL player.

[MJK]

The highlight of the game for me was that kid giving pelvic thrusts from the top of that table when they panned the crowd at the end of the game. I was waiting for someone to throttle him,.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

So standing in front of the net is like confession? Go once or twice and all your sins are forgiven?

lol...no, but playing a good solid game = playing a good solid game.

Which is what he did.

[Erick Estrada]

I don't get overly excited about exhibition results but it's good to see that there were few players that looked out of place. Engelland has been better than expected so far and Granlund easily the best young forward. Not much else to take away from a single exhibition game like this as I personally didn't see any of the young players outside of Granlund and maybe Sven making a case for staying with the big club and really that shouldn't be a surprise as most of the young players need more AHL seasoning. Good to get the win and whether it be preseason or regular season it still sucks watching the Coyotes.

[Nehkara]

[TheGrimm]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't get overly excited about exhibition results but it's good to see that there were few players that looked out of place. Engelland has been better than expected so far and Granlund easily the best young forward. Not much else to take away from a single exhibition game like this as I personally didn't see any of the young players outside of Granlund and maybe Sven making a case for staying with the big club and really that shouldn't be a surprise as most of the young players need more AHL seasoning. Good to get the win and whether it be preseason or regular season it still sucks watching the Coyotes.

Engelland played an OK game in my mind. He made some bad puck decisions occasionally, one pass in his own zone cross ice to no-one comes to mind, it didn't end up costing us on that play but it was pretty bizarre. He seemed to take a bit too long to make decisions with the puck, but it's not like we brought him in to QB the PP or anything. If I'm being honest with my expectations he is a 8-12 minute D-man who can bruise and apparently has a good locker room/leadership presence.

Granlund drew 3 penalties by my count just by keeping his feet moving and maybe with a bit of salesmanship. Great game by him, I definitely want to see him stick and with Backlunds injury I'm thinking it's a strong possibility.

I thought Jooris had a decent game, he plays the same every shift, very consistent effort and has enough skill to be a bit of a threat out there.

I'm also not as sold on Diaz game as others here, he reminds me a bit of a small Phaneuf in the offensive zone, wants to sit there and unload one-timers all night. He was a bit scary defensively, but with some coaching might be usable in the third pairing with some PP time for sure. The other thing with Diaz is he looks like he uses a small stick and holds it like Cammi with the one-timer, it threw me off watching him the first couple of times, I wonder if they could convert him to RW?

[Weitz]

Sometimes I forget this is preseason based on how some of you are reacting.

[hummdeedoo]

Originally Posted by TheGrimm

I thought Jooris had a decent game, he plays the same every shift, very consistent effort and has enough skill to be a bit of a threat out there.

I noticed him too and have not really heard of him before - agree that he played very consistently. His game reminded me of Byron's.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

I don't know what some of you are expecting out of Glencross....he played fine tonight and looked plenty interested, didn't think he was "floating" at all.

Just staring at him waiting for his legs to stop moving or the wrong look on his face I suspect.

Pretty sure he wouldn't be wearing an A if the coaches and teammates actually thought he was floating, uncaring, disinterested.

You shouldn't be surprised. Certain people here have always picked someone to hate then rely on confirmation bias to form a mythos about how said player sucks.

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by Drury18

I have to pipe in here about Sieloff and the few posters commenting about how terrible he is.

No, Sieloff isn't playing all that great. Let's keep in mind, a year ago he had a very real possibility of dying from a staph infection and then an allergic reaction to the medication they gave him for the infection. This isn't an exaggeration, his infection was that severe where he it could have killed him had he not gotten proper treatment as fast as he did. It wasn't a separated shoulder or torn knee where he could still work out and keep in a game shape, he was then unable to perform any physical activity for 8 weeks (anything that would cause him to break a sweat) and that was after being immobile for a month between the hospital treatments and his at home treatments. And staph infection treatments aren't just an Advil, it's a drug cocktail that make you feel like crap, usually lose weight as you feel sick and don't eat/vomit and take away all your energy. Chances are even if he did want to do something, he wouldn't have been able to. He lost muscle and weight during this time and he's only been "full" training to make up for it since June-ish.

Also keep in mind, he hasn't seen any in game action at this level as he only got 2 games with Abbotsford before getting the infection. He's never played at the AHL or NHL level before. He is no different then Sam Bennett right now for NHL experience. Fresh out of the OHL if you will as that was the last league he had regular time. He also hasn't generally seen any game action in probably 18 months as the last time he played regularly was April 2013.

So yea, when you want to judge how he's playing, please keep that in mind. He does have high expectations of him and I have no doubt he will reach them, but he's lost development time and has to catch up. We can't expect him to play at an elite level at this point, that's unrealistic.

Thanks for this, from some of the comments in the game thread, I was wondering if people realized just how sick he was. I can't wait to see him get back to the player he was before all this happened to him, he was very exciting to watch.

[handgroen]

Seems like there are a lot of "leave baertschi alone," or " sven played well i don't know what everyone is talking about" or "Glencross is doing fine he's a vet"
But there aren't really very many posts attacking either of those players.
this thread is full of defensive posts without any actual aggressive posts to begin with.

quit being so defensive of your favorite players everybody, getting to be a damned complex around here

[RyZ]

- I think that Beartschi and Gaudreau were a step ahead of Gralund and Reinhart, who were a step ahead of Ferland and Klimchuck last night. I would still like to see those first 4 guys all see significant time in the NHL this season if possible.

- Colborne looked more like a bubble player than one of the "vets" last night as well.

- Wolf hasn't impressed at all and is nowhere near NHL ready at this time.

- While I love Big Ern and am a fighting supporter, I still don't think he has to dress most nights.

[ForeverFlameFan]

My favorite highlight of the game was Granlund's pass to Big Ern. He could be our 4th line center and do that all day long if McGrattan can get open like that .

[ForeverFlameFan]

Also, I am very glad that Sven is fighting for that roster spot. Looks better defensively, now let's see his offensive skill combined with that and he'll be that complete top 6 LWer we were looking for.

[bluloc]

Not sure why Glencross is getting shlacked. Thought he played a pretty good game. Thought Baertschi played his best game yet and im liking the Russell Engelland pairing so far. I thought Engelland would be more of a defensive liabilty but so far so good. Granlund by far has been the best rookie night in night out and would be very surprised if he didnt start with the club. As for Johnny there's no doubting his skill but I havent seen anything that would warrant him getting a roster spot with the flames. I would like to see him start in the A. Overall happy with the teams performance although Ortio had a couple iffy rebounds.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I'd like to add to the thread I think Carr is working his way into the goaltending question for the hockey club. Ortio hasn't looked good, so Carr may end up being the guy in the minors and the first call up in the event of injury. He looks really calm out there and plays a strong positional game. Good development for the club.