YLYL Thread and other things...

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

That said, can we still make fun of fat people?

Only fat men. Not fat women.

[jar_e]

The sense of entitlement in this thread and others is shocking for something that 99.9% of people don't pay a dime into.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jar_e

The sense of entitlement in this thread and others is shocking for something that 99.9% of people don't pay a dime into.

You're right. If you dont pay for it you shouldnt have an opinion.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by Locke

You're right. If you dont pay for it you shouldnt have an opinion.

Oh you can have your opinion. Fill your boots. Just don't feel your entitled to anything on when you're contributing nothing to it. That's all.

Opinion ≠ entitlement...and there's a lot of the latter in the first bit of this thread.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jar_e

Oh you can have your opinion. Fill your boots. Just don't feel your entitled to anything on when you're contributing nothing to it. That's all.

Opinion ≠ entitlement...and there's a lot of the latter in the first bit of this thread.

Fair enough, I see it as people expressing their opinion on a sequence of events that have unfolded over the last month or so.

You're right, there are a few that are disappointed that their boobies were taken away, but I see more disappointment in the reasons as to why.

But again, sometimes toys have to be taken away for lessons to be learned.

I disagree with what was done and how and why, even though I think I opened that thread all of once, but at the same time some of the comments around here have been incredibly immature.

[Iceman57]

Originally Posted by Iceman57

This is not an argument to keep the YLYL thread but i wanted to express my disagreement with the moderators decision to delete the entire thread as i believe it sets a bad example especially since at the time the poll was in favour of keeping the thread as it was.

:Some consider me overweight so when i see threads promoting exercise it makes me feel bad about myself

:I've decided to no longer eat meat but the Burger and Pizza threads make me crave it and that's not fair

:I feel video games today are damaging our kids and shouldn't be promoted on this site

I didn't post in the debate because the agreement to close the thread was too convoluted as i felt the focus shifted from "is the thread good for CP" to mainly policing people's comments on the internet. Again in my opinion, I always believed we all had the right of freedom of speech here set within the rules of CP in combination with the choice to decide which threads we read. If the title or the first opinion posted in the thread offends/doesn't interest you then the right is yours not to read it, can't we make it that simple? At the very least, i believe the mods should have archived the thread but in the end, i do respect their decision.

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Freedom of speech only means that the government can't lock you up for expressing an opinion. You have never had freedom of speech on this site. All forum members agree to the rules as dictated by the moderators who determine what type of posts are acceptable.

That's exactly what i was referring to, when posting i have always followed the guidelines set fourth by the moderators here so when one knows the rules, they should have the ability to express their opinions freely within those boundaries.

The YLYL thread was posted in the The Off Topic Forum section and the choice was left up to the individual whether they wanted to read it or not. Whenever i posted in the thread, i never meant it to be sexist or misogynistic but rather my practice to share who i personally thought of as beautiful while actually trying to see if their was one single women that everyone would find attractive (in case anyone was wondering the closest i came was with Paris Nichole).

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by jar_e

The sense of entitlement in this thread and others is shocking for something that 99.9% of people don't pay a dime into.

This place wouldn't even exist without it's members. Why do we have to 'pay into it' to be entitled to an opinion on how things are run?

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

This place wouldn't even exist without it's members. Why do we have to 'pay into it' to be entitled to an opinion on how things are run?

I think jar clarified that.

It's not entitlement to an opinion, but entitlement to a state of things.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

This place wouldn't even exist without it's members. Why do we have to 'pay into it' to be entitled to an opinion on how things are run?

You agreed to the guidelines to post here and follow the mods requests. The guidelines have now changed and the thread isn't allowed. I don't understand how this is such a travesty?

Furthermore, if you'd like to be a martyr and make your stand about how outrageous this is, no one is keeping you on this site. Close your account and fight the good fight. I clarified that there's a right to have your opinion but there's no right to entitlement.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Locke

Next thing you know they'll be telling us that we cant make fun of Edmonton, Edmontonians, the Oilers or women of ill-repute that frequent Edmontonion Boston Pizza establishments.

Seriously, couldn't the same case be made for deleting the Edmonton is no good thread as was done for the YLYL thread?
Neither really add anything for the greater good. Plenty of questionable commentary. Even a small minority of Edmontonians trying to defend themselves.
Not a big deal and certainly the mods can do what they like. I certainly do not defend the idea that the poll should have anything to do with the decision. A majority on a poll does not prove the truth of that position, but similarly, the views of the minority does not necessarily represent the truth either.
My main point of concern is that I don't think the actual harm was well evidenced. It always felt like "video games causes violence" or "rock music/weed/condoms lead to teenage promiscuity" type of argument. I understand that degrading pictures can cause problems, but it should have been shown that those pictures caused the problem. I do think it will lead to more thread deletions and lifetime suspensions, and I am not so sure it is a good thing. Get rid of Edmonton is no good. Get rid of Godless Apostate. Perhaps get rid of Off-Topic, as by definition, it has nothing to do with Flames hockey.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Weak decision. Will not have the effect folks are seeking. I'll have a more in depth thought on this later.

Thanks for the warning.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Seriously, couldn't the same case be made for deleting the Edmonton is no good thread as was done for the YLYL thread?
Neither really add anything for the greater good. Plenty of questionable commentary. Even a small minority of Edmontonians trying to defend themselves.
Not a big deal and certainly the mods can do what they like. I certainly do not defend the idea that the poll should have anything to do with the decision. A majority on a poll does not prove the truth of that position, but similarly, the views of the minority does not necessarily represent the truth either.
My main point of concern is that I don't think the actual harm was well evidenced. It always felt like "video games causes violence" or "rock music/weed/condoms lead to teenage promiscuity" type of argument. I understand that degrading pictures can cause problems, but it should have been shown that those pictures caused the problem. I do think it will lead to more thread deletions and lifetime suspensions, and I am not so sure it is a good thing. Get rid of Edmonton is no good. Get rid of Godless Apostate. Perhaps get rid of Off-Topic, as by definition, it has nothing to do with Flames hockey.

It has been discussed that it wasn't just the photo's and in fact it could be argued that the response(s) to the photos was the main driving point. The responses were often sexist borderline misogynistic.

I think of posts I made in that thread, and to be honest I am glad it is gone.

[BlackArcher101]

Can't say I agree with the decision to remove the thread entirely, I thought a moderator team with a new set of rules and posters with a new set of guidelines and using the post reporting button would eventually right the ship.

That said, I'm just along for the ride, so I fully respect the decisions of the moderator team and will adapt.

My concern is that there now must be a clear definition of what can or can not be tolerated. I'm afraid this will result in people using this as a tool when disagreements arise, such as on religious and mental health topics.

Frankly, I'm going to be afraid to post anything until I see what the dynamics of the board are.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

It has been discussed that it wasn't just the photo's and in fact it could be argued that the response(s) to the photos was the main driving point. The responses were often sexist borderline misogynistic.

I think of posts I made in that thread, and to be honest I am glad it is gone.

Fair point, but on this and any internet site, you are going to have inappropriate comments. Should we ban the thread or the commenter? Or, do we keep all of it, good and bad, and have the community make their own decisions as to whom they agree with?

[Resolute 14]

Slippery slope fallacy FTW!

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Fair point, but on this and any internet site, you are going to have inappropriate comments. Should we ban the thread or the commenter? Or, do we keep all of it, good and bad, and have the community make their own decisions as to whom they agree with?

Good question.

But I guess at the end of the day this is the owner's decision to make. It is his world, we just get to play in it. I think his son is on here isn't he, and I know his wife is a poster now. Perhaps, he wanted to clean up the site (poor choice of word, b/c as the internet goes this is a pretty tame/well mannered place).

I will be honest, I am not sure you would ever get "the community" to make its "own decisions".

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Slippery slope fallacy FTW!

It's pretty much the only defence I've seen against the decision made.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Slippery slope fallacy FTW!

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

It's pretty much the only defence I've seen against the decision made.

I'm not against the decision made, I'm concerned about the direction forward. The focus is to change the board, to improve the quality of future posts, to let everyone feel welcome despite anything that sets them apart of others, is it not? Let's focus on that now instead of relating ones post and opinion on how it relates solely to "the decision".

Look at the forum guidelines and #10 specifically, it is very open ended and generic. I feel it should be clarified or tightened a bit.

I can't be the only one looking forward with the announcement that more moderators members will be added to broaden the viewpoint. So please, don't take my concern about the future and turn it around and call it a slippery slope fallacy argument towards something already decided and done with.

[Eastern Girl]

Originally Posted by Barbecue

Terrible decision...It's amazing what a vocal minority can do to the majority

cant wait for the whiners to keep whining about other things and the mod team will have to redraw the line to cater to the sensitive handful

We should start a pool. My money is on another 5 years till another line is redrawn

Yes, we whined and whined and whined. We whined away your T&A thread. Where's my "Mission Accomplished" banner?

You are so right to be weary though. We, the whiny vocal minority, are going to keep whining.

This was just step one. Next step, I am going to start whining about driving gear grinders. Oh yeah, people talking about their driving annoyances really offends my sensitive female mind, so I am going to whine about them until the line is redrawn and no one is allowed to talk about driving. Then, once that is all gone, I am going to whine about funny and/or cool pictures, because they aren't funny and/or cool. They are just offensive and they hurt my brain.

Pretty soon, we are all just going to be talking about the weather. That is, until someone says something offensive like, "it's too cold," then I will just have this whole board banished to "HTTP 404" hell.

Fair warning.

[Eastern Girl]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

And I get that, but I just worry now people will claim things "offend them" just to get threads locked. I think there might be more senseless, pointless pissing wars now. And I also worry posters will simply choose to not post as much or at all in Off Topic which is where 90% of the new guidelines will really apply. Hopefully not but again we'll see.

Valid concerns. To your first point, people already have the ability to complain about posts they don't like. It's up to the moderation team to decide whether a concern is valid. I imagine this is where the addition of mods with different backgrounds/personalities/genders/experience/etc. will come in handy. To your second point, I am sure there are women that have not posted as a result of what has been posted here before. There was a long time where I stopped posting merely because it just felt like a locker room conversation sometimes. I think the goal is to be as inclusive as possible. Shutting down the thread might not seem inclusive on the surface, but I think it could lead to a good change.

No one is saying that people shouldn't express their views. We are simply hoping that the sexism is curbed.

My only real goal in posting in the sexism thread was to try and offer a differing view point. I really hope the discussion continues without people just writing off our view as merely first class whining.