More police brutality

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

I must have missed the god complex post.

The god opinion is not my own.

Take a look at my post.

Im Agnostic.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok, but give me a good reason why he wouldn't besides "it is my charter right and I am gonna stick it to the man!" attitude? Any other reason besides that??

The same way you won't tell us your name and address? Some people respect their privacy for some odd reason. If they have done nothing wrong they should be able to keep it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Don't pull the bull#### "nothing to hide" card though. If you have nothing to hide I'm sure you would be fine telling us your name and address right now too, right? Or are you up to something illegal?

Well I don't know any officer that would say that however it certainly is going to make you question why the person does not want you to know their identity. Why would you care unless there was something you didn't want that officer to know? Oh, that's right, the Charter thing. Yes.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

The same way you won't tell us your name and address? Some people respect their privacy for some odd reason. If they have done nothing wrong they should be able to keep it.

And that is fine and if an officer asked you for it for no reason at all then all the power to you, good for you. Why though if he explains with a valid reason? Your privacy is more important than perhaps somebody's safety? Especially given the officer is not going to quickly erect a sign stating your name and address and parade it around town.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well I don't know any officer that would say that however it certainly is going to make you question why the person does not want you to know their identity. Why would you care unless there was something you didn't want that officer to know? Oh, that's right, the Charter thing. Yes.

Like I said worrisome attitude. Using the blanket "if you have nothing to hide" while ironically doing it on pseudonym refusing to show his real name. What do you have to hide? Or does privacy only extend to cops?

Of course I don't believe you would reveal your name, or expect to, but it does show some hypocrisy there. Obviously something to hide.

[V]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok V, an officer approaches you because he has a description given to him by a lady who's brother suffers from mental illness and has wandered from their home, she is concerned that he does not have his meds and could be a danger to himself. The officer thinks you might fit the description and asks your name. Do you refuse because you have done nothing wrong? What if he asks to see your I.D. to confirm you are not that person? Are you going to say no because we don't live in a police state?

Yeah, I'm probably going to refuse. I don't see a valid reason to show my ID.

Now, according to your logic, the cop now has reasonable grounds to suspect that I'm guilty of something. That's not cool.

[dissentowner]

Anyhow we are off topic, this thread pisses me off to no end not because of the comments against police, it is because there are officers out there who abuse their power and take advantage of the trust given to them to protect and serve and it is shameful and wrong. Ask any other officer on this board what pisses them off more and you would be hard pressed to find a different answer.

[V]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Oh, that's right, the Charter thing. Yes.

If you can't understand how worrying it is that an officer sluffs off my rights this casually, then I really don't understand why we would go any further than this. Yikes.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by V

Yeah, I'm probably going to refuse. I don't see a valid reason to show my ID.

No, what that shows is the type of person you are, I actually pity you.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No, I said if someone were to refuse to show their I.D. to an officer it leads me to believe that person probably has something to hide. As of yet nobody who thinks that view is wrong has given me one good reason to contradict that opinion. Given that I already said the officer should not be asking without giving a reason first what don't you understand. Here, let me give you a scenario. Officer approaches you and says they are looking for Joe Blow who's description makes the officer believe that might be you. He asks if he can see your I.D. You don't have to show him I.D. but tell me why you wouldn't?

That scenario isn't really applicable in this discussion.
The officer had no just cause to ask for her ID, outside of some lovely racial profiling. In the US, people are regularly stopped, frisked, asked for ID without any explanation or cause. It's all about intimidation. Someone shouldn't have to show an officer their ID because of a simple, chaste public display of affection between herself and her husband.

You can give me scenarios about missing people, etc, all day, but they don't matter in this discussion, because that is not the context in which the woman refused to give her ID, and the request of ID for intimidation purposes is a regular occurrence in the US.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by V

If you can't understand how worrying it is that an officer sluffs off my rights this casually, then I really don't understand why we would go any further than this. Yikes.

No, I am done with you. You have shown what you are about, not worth my time at all.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by V

Yeah, I'm probably going to refuse. I don't see a valid reason to show my ID.

Now, according to your logic, the cop now has reasonable grounds to suspect that I'm guilty of something. That's not cool.

It's a worrisome attitude to me. I'm not anti-police one bit, but a cop going around so willy-nilly touting the "nothing to hide" sentiment and acting like the charter of rights isn't that big of a deal and people exercising it are simply up to no good is troublesome.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

That scenario isn't really applicable in this discussion.
The officer had no just cause to ask for her ID, outside of some lovely racial profiling. In the US, people are regularly stopped, frisked, asked for ID without any explanation or cause. It's all about intimidation. Someone shouldn't have to show an officer their ID because of a simple, chaste public display of affection between herself and her husband.

You can give me scenarios about missing people, etc, all day, but they don't matter in this discussion, because that is not the context in which the woman refused to give her ID, and the request of ID for intimidation purposes is a regular occurrence in the US.

I know, we got off topic from that, I already explained I didn't read that article until later. I have already fully agreed with what you are saying there.

[V]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It's a worrisome attitude to me. I'm not anti-police one bit, but a cop going around so willy-nilly touting the "nothing to hide" sentiment and acting like the charter of rights isn't that big of a deal and people exercising it are simply up to no good is troublesome.

Fortunately every Canadian officer I personally know doesn't share his opinion. Hopefully it's a small minority of cops that would agree with him.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It's a worrisome attitude to me. I'm not anti-police one bit, but a cop going around so willy-nilly touting the "nothing to hide" sentiment and acting like the charter of rights isn't that big of a deal and people exercising it are simply up to no good is troublesome.

Still have not given me a valid argument otherwise though have you? It sounds like a childs argument.
Officer: We are looking for someone matching your description, do you have some I.D. you can show me.
Person: No, I don't have to, it is my Charter right! You can't make me! Wahhh!! I am taking my ball and bat and going home!!!

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Anyhow we are off topic, this thread pisses me off to no end not because of the comments against police, it is because there are officers out there who abuse their power and take advantage of the trust given to them to protect and serve and it is shameful and wrong. ask any other officer on this board what pisses them off more and you would be hard pressed to find a different answer.

Yes there are, and while they are in the minority they do present an issue with the rest of the civilian population's thinking. If an individual, for whatever reason, wants to be exercising his rights when talking with an officer you should simply respect it and go about other legal ways of doing your job. Not stating that "if you have nothing to hide" and acting like the charter or rights is some bull#### criminal protecting document.

But the fact you think someone using those rights is akin to a child taking his ball and going home, makes me wonder if you are in that minority.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by V

Fortunately every Canadian officer I personally know doesn't share his opinion. Hopefully it's a small minority of cops that would agree with him.

I would bet everything I own you know none then. You are an obvious cop hater and totally full of crap, look at the stuff you have spewed in this thread. You have police friends but you put on an American video that has a lawyer saying never to speak to the police. Sure you do. I think I will just block you, everything you say is a joke.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yes there are, and while they are in the minority they do present an issue with the rest of the civilian population's thinking. If an individual, for whatever reason, wants to be exercising his rights when talking with an officer you should simply respect it and go about other legal ways of doing your job. Not stating that "if you have nothing to hide" and acting like the charter or rights is some bull#### criminal protecting document.

Blah blah blah, still have not given a valid reason...

[V]

Hey, you made a promise, and then broke it, what, 4 minutes later? Geez.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Blah blah blah, still have not given a valid reason...

Sorry, who's being the child? And just so we're clear, you're asking why someone should have the ability to exercise his rights? Maybe because it's his right to do so? His legal right to do so. What possible other answer would a police officer, no less, need?