More police brutality

[V]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I get video does not exist. Look, what I am saying is that policing is a hell of a lot different in Canada than in the U.S., if an officer wants your I.D. he will explain why, or he should. I don't understand why someone would not show their I.D. unless they didn't want that officer to know who they were for some legal reason. You have still not given any other reason why.

Edited to correct video.

Well, the first reason is that this is not Nazi Germany, and I am not required to allow an officer to infringe on my rights unless they have a valid reason. Your attempt to turn this around, especially as a cop is incredibly disconcerting. Why would you ask for ID unless something is suspected to be wrong? If you can't explain what you believe I did wrong I will not happily give up my rights. There doesn't need to be a better reason than that. This is not a police state.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I get video does not exist. Look, what I am saying is that policing is a hell of a lot different in Canada than in the U.S., if an officer wants your I.D. he will explain why, or he should. I don't understand why someone would not show their I.D. unless they didn't want that officer to know who they were for some legal reason. You have still not given any other reason why.

Why should we have to identify ourselves if we have done nothing wrong and you don't suspect us of doing anything wrong?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by DOOM

I've already stated my opinion.

Here is another opinion though.

Cops are not god.

Who says they are?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Why should we have to identify ourselves if we have done nothing wrong and you don't suspect us of doing anything wrong?

You shouldn't but that was not my question. My question was give me a legitimate reason why you would have a problem with showing your I.D. to a police officer?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Why should we have to identify ourselves if we have done nothing wrong and you don't suspect us of doing anything wrong?

He's already said a couple times that if the cop doesn't explain why he's asking or doesn't have a reason for asking (which he then explains to you) that the cop shouldn't be asking.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Who says they are?

People who feel that they have done nothing wrong will likely make the equalization.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by V

Edited to correct video.

Well, the first reason is that this is not Nazi Germany, and I am not required to allow an officer to infringe on my rights unless they have a valid reason. Your attempt to turn this around, especially as a cop is incredibly disconcerting. Why would you ask for ID unless something is suspected to be wrong? If you can't explain what you believe I did wrong I will not happily give up my rights. There doesn't need to be a better reason than that. This is not a police state.

I wouldn't ask for your I.D. unless I gave a reason. However saying you would not give up your I.D. because this is not a police state or nazi Germany sounds to me as dickish as a cop demanding your I.D. without giving you a reason which I have never heard of happening in my area. You have this weird impression police are all bullies by the sounds of it, why do you have that outlook if you don't mind me asking? Yes, this is not Nazi Gemany and it certainly is not the U.S. either.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I get video does not exist. Look, what I am saying is that policing is a hell of a lot different in Canada than in the U.S., if an officer wants your I.D. he will explain why, or he should. I don't understand why someone would not show their I.D. unless they didn't want that officer to know who they were for some legal reason. You have still not given any other reason why.

Because in the US, for black men and women, a large number of officers are regularly stopping them, frisking them, harassing them, shooting at them without real cause, simply for sitting on a bench, kissing their significant other in a public place, buying a BB gun at a Walmart. Police have no one to blame but their own when minorities in this country treat them as the enemy.

I haven't been to Canada in quite some time, but I'd imagine it isn't a weekly occurrence up there for an officer to wrongly arrest, harass, or even murder someone. Down here it's all part of the same old, same old. Yes, there are many good, well meaning police officers. But there's a disturbing number of officers who were poorly trained, trigger happy, and intoxicated by the power of the position.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Because in the US, for black men and women, a large number of officers are regularly stopping them, frisking them, harassing them, shooting at them without real cause, simply for sitting on a bench, kissing their significant other in a public place, buying a BB gun at a Walmart. Police have no one to blame but their own when minorities in this country treat them as the enemy.

I haven't been to Canada in quite some time, but I'd imagine it isn't a weekly occurrence up there for an officer to wrongly arrest, harass, or even murder someone. Down here it's all part of the same old, same old. Yes, there are many good, well meaning police officers. But there's a disturbing number of officers who were poorly trained, trigger happy, and intoxicated by the power of the position.

Well that is sad to hear and I understand the huge difference between policing here and in the U.S. There are still bad officers here but for the most part I would like to think we have got it right.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by DOOM

I've already stated my opinion.

Here is another opinion though.

Cops are not god.

IMO you're an idiot. No cop thinks they're god.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by V

Edited to correct video.

Your video is American, not really relevent to what I was talking about.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

IMO you're an idiot.

No he isn't, he just has his own view of things. I can respect anybody's opinion on anything even if I don't agree with it. No need to go there.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

He's already said a couple times that if the cop doesn't explain why he's asking or doesn't have a reason for asking (which he then explains to you) that the cop shouldn't be asking.

And then he goes on to say if you have done nothing wrong you shouldn't be refusing to show ID. He's making his cake and eating it too. He's saying if you done wrong the cops should be able to ask for ID, which is obvious fair. He then says if you have also not done wrong then you should have no problem showing ID. That's an issue. If we have done no wrong the cops shouldn't be asking us for ID and we should (and legally are) be able to refuse. People who have done no wrong should not have to answer to the police and should be able to go about their lives unharassed. That fact he thinks, and has stated it several times , that people exercising their right (which it is) to refuse to show ID to cops is a sign of illegal doing is worrisome to me.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

And then he goes on to say if you have done nothing wrong you shouldn't be refusing to show ID. He's making his cake and eating it too. He's saying if you done wrong the cops should be able to ask for ID, which is obvious fair. He then says if you have also not done wrong then you should have no problem showing ID. That's an issue. If we have done no wrong the cops shouldn't be asking us for ID and we should (and legally are) be able to refuse. People who have done no wrong should not have to answer to the police and should be able to go about their lives unharassed. That fact he thinks, and has stated it several times , that people exercising their right (which it is) to refuse to show ID to cops is a sign of illegal doing is worrisome to me.

No, I said if someone were to refuse to show their I.D. to an officer it leads me to believe that person probably has something to hide. As of yet nobody who thinks that view is wrong has given me one good reason to contradict that opinion. Given that I already said the officer should not be asking without giving a reason first what don't you understand. Here, let me give you a scenario. Officer approaches you and says they are looking for Joe Blow who's description makes the officer believe that might be you. He asks if he can see your I.D. You don't have to show him I.D. but tell me why you wouldn't?

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

IMO you're an idiot. No cop thinks they're god.

You missed my point, congrats.

It wasn't even my own point..wow.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No he isn't, he just has his own view of things. I can respect anybody's opinion on anything even if I don't agree with it. No need to go there.

Hit enter before I was finished. He can have his opinion, I'm just getting sick of this perception that ALL cops are on some kind of power trip.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by DOOM

You missed my point, congrats.

It wasn't even my own point..wow.

I must have missed the god complex post.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No, I said if someone were to refuse to show their I.D. to an officer it leads me to believe that person probably has something to hide.

Yes and that is what is worrisome to me.

As of yet nobody who thinks that view is wrong has given me one good reason to contradict that opinion.

The charter of rights and court decisions have made it abundantly clear we don't need a good reason to refuse to show ID. You are the one who needs a reason to demand ID.

Given that I already said the officer should not be asking without giving a reason first what don't you understand. Here, let me give you a scenario. Officer approaches you and says they are looking for Joe Blow who's description makes the officer believe that might be you. He asks if he can see your I.D. You don't have to show him I.D. but tell me why you wouldn't?

I probably would. If another person decided differently and they wanted to exercise their rights that's fine. You shouldn't be assuming he's up to something illegal now though. Don't pull the bull#### "nothing to hide" card though. If you have nothing to hide I'm sure you would be fine telling us your name and address right now too, right? Or are you up to something illegal?

[dissentowner]

Ok V, an officer approaches you because he has a description given to him by a lady who's brother suffers from mental illness and has wandered from their home, she is concerned that he does not have his meds and could be a danger to himself. The officer thinks you might fit the description and asks your name. Do you refuse because you have done nothing wrong? What if he asks to see your I.D. to confirm you are not that person? Are you going to say no because we don't live in a police state?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yes and that is what is worrisome to me.

The charter of rights and court decisions have made it abundantly clear we don't need a good reason to refuse to show ID. You are the one who needs a reason to demand ID.


I probably would. If another person decided differently and they wanted to exercise their rights that's fine. You shouldn't be assuming he's up to something illegal now though.

Ok, but give me a good reason why he wouldn't besides "it is my charter right and I am gonna stick it to the man!" attitude? Any other reason besides that??