YLYL Thread Sexism Discussion (split from Gay Teen thread).

[Itse]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

You stated that men can't look at a woman and appreciate the human form without "drooling". Im not sure that anyone would disagree with that being a derogatory comment towards men.

I don't really know what to say to that, since you're now having some sort of imaginary discussion that really does not have much anything to do with what I was talking about, nor with the YLYL thread.

It's really confusing actually for me to constantly hear these arguments that seem to come from this idea that the YLYL thread is somehow a fundamental part of male sexual behavior.

I'm not sure if this helps, and I know this might shock some of our readers, but the YLYL thread is not even all there is to how men look at women.

[Wastedyouth]

Somehow I have missed this YLYL thread in my entire time i've been here...

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Somehow I have missed this YLYL thread in my entire time i've been here...

I think one thing everyone can agree upon is that it's a terrible title. Sounds like a bad movie starring some random Sex In The City star trying to resurrect her career.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by jammies

I think one thing everyone can agree upon is that it's a terrible title. Sounds like a bad movie starring some random Sex In The City star trying to resurrect her career.

Everyone knows it'd be Sarah Jessica Parker, why even pretend the other 3 have a chance?

"Girls Just Want to Have Fun"
"'Til There Was You"
"Failure to Launch"
"I Don't Know How She Does It"
...
"You Love, You Lose"

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Zevo

I'm all for getting rid of the YLYL thread if it means you will be less of a condescending prick, but alas, you talk down to pretty much every poster you disagree with, no matter the topic.

My work here is done.

[Barbecue]

Now that the dust has settled and more have voted, I hope its noticed that over 50% don't want the thread to be changed.

Why have they not posted anything here? I dont think many in the 50% want to be identified or are willing to have a lengthy argument which is why you wont find too many of them discussing it in this thread. Good thing this poll is anonymous so we could get an honest opinion on the matter from the silent majority

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Barbecue

Now that the dust has settled and more have voted, I hope its noticed that over 50% don't want the thread to be changed.

Why have they not posted anything here? I dont think many in the 50% want to be identified or are willing to have a lengthy argument which is why you wont find too many of them discussing it in this thread. Good thing this poll is anonymous so we could get an honest opinion on the matter from the silent majority

On one hand I get that and respect that. Lengthy discussions are tiresome, and many really just don't have the time for this stuff right now because it's not the only thing in their lives. And yeah, the fear of getting labeled as a sexist/perv is something I think most guys can relate with. Besides, it's not like you can have a discussion with 200 people all at once.

On the other hand, as a consequence of not getting into the discussion, many of those who voted probably didn't think about it that much. Voting for the status quo is after all always the easy vote.

But no vote is perfect. I totally agree it's good to have the poll anonymous.

[Barbecue]

While that might be true for some, not getting into the discussion doesn't mean the arguments in this thread were not read and understood. Whether it's a time constraint or they just don't want to look like a "sexist", the 50+% is telling that some of them just don't agree with the opposing view

There are many lurkers in CP who just simply read threads and dont participate, including thanking a post

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Barbecue

While that might be true for some, not getting into the discussion doesn't mean the arguments in this thread were not read and understood. Whether it's a time constraint or they just don't want to look like a "sexist", the 50+% is telling that some of them just don't agree with the opposing view

There are many lurkers in CP who just simply read threads and dont participate, including thanking a post

When both are equal, it rarely requires contemplation to believe something is acceptable in it's current state, but it ALWAYS requires contemplation to believe something must change.

There's a good quote that sums up this thread nicely:

Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Churchill

Whether the thread is changed at the hands of moderators is still a decision they have to make. How do you weigh change? It's a split issue at 50/50, so what does more damage to the community? Leaving it the same, or enacting some sort of change?

Regardless of what their decision is or whether they make one, the thread has already changed. The thread is already different than the thread that existed two weeks ago, and in that sense, it probably pleases more than a few people who didn't vote for the status quo and saw a need for positive change and perhaps displeases some who vote to keep things just the way they were. This thread has served an excellent purpose because criticism, as quoted, calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. It did that, and natural change has already been influenced.

[Barbecue]

The trouble with this is that you're assuming there is an unhealthy state of things when half of the people who voted in that poll have voted that way because they felt there isnt. If there is, at the very least, changing that thread isnt the solution.

My observation reflects the assumption that it wasnt equal. This thread is dominant with arguments that something should be changed about the YLYL thread. Also a poster earlier mentioned the votes were 40/60 in favor for change, which is now not the case.

If your assumption that things are unhealthy because of your perception, that fine... but please dont assume it is based on the vocal minority here

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Barbecue

The trouble with this is that you're assuming there is an unhealthy state of things when half of the people who voted in that poll have voted that way because they felt there isnt. If there is, at the very least, changing that thread isnt the solution.

My observation reflects the assumption that it wasnt equal. This thread is dominant with arguments that something should be changed about the YLYL thread. Also a poster earlier mentioned the votes were 40/60 in favor for change, which is now not the case.

If your assumption that things are unhealthy because of your perception, that fine... but please dont assume it is based on the vocal minority here

Unfortunately your version of "unhealthy" in reference to the quote isn't relevant.

Unhealthy, in this sense, is not to suggest that the thread was unhealthy, but rather that there was an unhealthy situation which that thread contributes to. By bringing that thread under criticism, the feelings of many of the female posters here have been made known regarding latent sexism and what constitutes that sort of thing, much of which was likely heard for the first time. In this sense, criticism of the thread highlighted the unhealthy situation if casual sexism inside and out of that thread.

Regarding your actual view on the thread itself, I might re-read the question of poll. The question is: "What should CP do with the YLYL thread" with a leading option of "Keep it at is" at 50.39% (or a difference of two votes compared to the 'change' option). For this reason, you're guilty of confirmation bias. The poll does NOT suggest that 50.39% of people find the thread healthy or without issues, but rather than 50.39%, regardless of their view on the thread, think nothing should be done about it. That could include people who haven't read this thread and been made aware of the problem, don't care that others find it to be an issue, or don't feel that whatever issues the thread possess are worth addressing.

If your assumption is that 50.39% of people believe the thread and overall situation to be healthy because of your perception, that's fine... but please don't assume they do simply because those votes didn't support change.

EDIT: It's also a bit funny seeing you argue the "don't change it" side, considering you're the guy who told someone his wife was "mediocre" and that she needed makeup.

[MarchHare]

There have also been a few people that posted saying they initially voted for the "Keep it as is" option but have since changed their minds after reading the thread.

As I said earlier, though, a poll on this topic on a site with an overwhelmingly male majority userbase is about as meaningful as two wolves and a sheep voting on what to eat for dinner.

[RyZ]

It would be a shame if the thread was closed. Not because of the content but because its a crystal clear case of a loud minority trying to bitch and whine until they make something happen that the large majority doesnt want.

If you dont like the thread, dont open it. It really is that simple.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by RyZ

It would be a shame if the thread was closed. Not because of the content but because its a crystal clear case of a loud minority trying to bitch and whine until they make something happen that the large majority doesnt want.

If you dont like the thread, dont open it. It really is that simple.

Regards,
The opposition to every equality movement ever

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by RyZ

It would be a shame if the thread was closed. Not because of the content but because its a crystal clear case of a loud minority trying to bitch and whine until they make something happen that the large majority doesnt want.

If you dont like the thread, dont open it. It really is that simple.

After all the discussion, and the opinions laid out by CP's female posters, that's the post you puke into the thread?

[The Familia]

Keep the thread open and as is. Honestly, if you don't like the content don't open it. There are so many other threads and comments about various topics and issues that can be deemed offensive as well. Do we shut down the whole site? I'm tired of this world constantly being offended about everything. People need to grow a thicker skin.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Keep the thread open and as is. Honestly, if you don't like the content don't open it. There are so many other threads and comments about various topics and issues that can be deemed offensive as well. Do we shut down the whole site? I'm tired of this world constantly being offended about everything. People need to grow a thicker skin.

I too enjoy telling the more marginalized members of our society what they should and shouldn't be offended by, because who would know better than someone who has never been marginalized on the basis of my race, gender, or sexual orientation?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I too enjoy telling the more marginalized members of our society what they should and shouldn't be offended by, because who would know better than someone who has never been marginalized on the basis of my race, gender, or sexual orientation?

Ugh, next you'll tell me you expect me to actually read the thread before making statements that clearly show I haven't. Marginalize deez.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I too enjoy telling the more marginalized members of our society what they should and shouldn't be offended by, because who would know better than someone who has never been marginalized on the basis of my race, gender, or sexual orientation?

That's what the last several hundred posts have been on both sides of the argument. This thread and poll have made for an interesting and thought-provoking discussion, but are ultimately as meaningful as a poll of the general population about whether Native Americans should feel offended by the name "Redskins."

I don't believe that there's anything wrong with that thread, but we should get rid of it if it makes a significant portion of the women on this site feel less welcome. I think the best option now would be to have a mod PM all of the known women on here and see what they think, because they're the ones who really matter as far as this topic goes.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by gargamel

That's what the last several hundred posts have been on both sides of the argument. This thread and poll have made for an interesting and thought-provoking discussion, but are ultimately as meaningful as a poll of the general population about whether Native Americans should feel offended by the name "Redskins."

I don't believe that there's anything wrong with that thread, but we should get rid of it if it makes a significant portion of the women on this site feel less welcome. I think the best option now would be to have a mod PM all of the known women on here and see what they think, because they're the ones who really matter as far as this topic goes.

Most of the women on this forum have made their views known in this thread.