We're in a thread where people have seen the video showing the robbery committed by Michael Brown, had his friend and reluctant accomplice admit to the robbery as well as the family attorney confirm it and still they deny that a robbery took place. Yet, Nage Waza is the person you want to insult for being contradictory?
I wouldn't use the word insult. More like public service announcement.
But yes.
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Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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St. Louis PD has released cellphone footage of the shooting and killing of Kajieme Powell by two St. Louis police officers on August 19. According to police he was shot within 2 to 3 feet of the police and holding a knife with a overhand grip and yelling "Shoot me, Kill me now". The shooting took place about two miles from where Michael Brown was killed.
I wouldn't use the word insult. More like public service announcement.
But yes.
There's people watching the robbery video and asking what does that have to do with him being shot? That is a very reasonable question and argument.
There's people watching the robbery video and stating that it's enough to justify the police shooting Michael Brown. That's showing extreme bias off of very little facts.
There's people watching the robbery video and refusing to admit a robbery took place. They are closing their eyes and refusing to look at facts.
Canuck-Hater, ResAlien and Itse have all shown to be part of the latter.
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Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater
I know the alleged robbery has nothing to do with this case but here is the rest of that surveillance video. You can see Mike Brown at the cash register, although not confirmed it appears that he is paying for the items.
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Originally Posted by ResAlien
in what world is that a "robbery"?
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Originally Posted by Itse
I also don't see how you interpret him as a violent criminal from that.
Flash Walken, and many others, have argued very fairly that the robbery shouldn't have any bearing on the incident. I might disagree somewhat with that, as I think it does add weight to the story that there was a violent struggle if he was shown to be violent 5 minutes before but I can easily see where Flash Walken is coming from and completely agree that what the video shows isn't warrant enough to justify shooting the man. I can't possibly reason with someone like ResAlien asking how it's a robbery. Yet Nage is the one who's going to get called out for something? =/
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We're in a thread where people have seen the video showing the robbery committed by Michael Brown, had his friend and reluctant accomplice admit to the robbery as well as the family attorney confirm it and still they deny that a robbery took place. Yet, Nage Waza is the person you want to insult for being contradictory?
Some of these guys simply attack those that disagree with them rather than deal with facts or reason.
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There's people watching the robbery video and asking what does that have to do with him being shot? That is a very reasonable question and argument.
There's people watching the robbery video and stating that it's enough to justify the police shooting Michael Brown. That's showing extreme bias off of very little facts.
There's people watching the robbery video and refusing to admit a robbery took place. They are closing their eyes and refusing to look at facts.
Canuck-Hater, ResAlien and Itse have all shown to be part of the latter.
The first two are absolutely valid questions since the cop who shot him didn't even know of the robbery when he stopped him. Where's the problem with those two statements?
The first two are absolutely valid questions since the cop who shot him didn't even know of the robbery when he stopped him. Where's the problem with those two statements?
As for the third, yeah it's a robbery.
Are you talking about the conclusions to the tape?
The first one I said is very reasonable question/argument. I don't have a problem with it.
The second one of drawing a conclusion that he deserved to die for that is extremely biased and void of any facts of the actual incident. It's not happening so much here, thankfully, but check the comments of some websites where the top comments are "another criminal off the street, I don't see a problem" or "good for him defending himself against this criminal." And of course a bunch of racist stuff. I have a problem with those just as much as I do anyone calling the cop a murderer when there was no facts.
Are you talking about the conclusions to the tape?
The first one I said is very reasonable question/argument. I don't have a problem with it.
The second one of drawing a conclusion that he deserved to die for that is extremely biased and void of any facts of the actual incident. It's not happening so much here, thankfully, but check the comments of some websites where the top comments are "another criminal off the street, I don't see a problem" or "good for him defending himself against this criminal." And of course a bunch of racist stuff. I have a problem with those just as much as I do anyone calling the cop a murderer when there was no facts.
Well no, the tape clearly seems to show a robbery.
As for the comments on the second statement, I don't think anyone here is saying that, at least from what I've seen. Those seem like a foxnews.com comment section (and yes I made the mistake of reading them the other day)
I understand it was only ten minutes between the robbery and when Brown was stopped.
Has anyone said he deserved to be shot due to the robbery? I may have missed that.
I certainly think past behaviour is a good indicator of future behaviour, in this situation leads me to believe Brown was prone to violent behaviour.
Is it now unreasonable to think Brown assaulted the cop to avoid arrest? Did Brown feel the officer was going to figure out he robbed a store? These are reasonable to assume, far more reasonable than an officer executing someone on the street. So far there just is not anything compelling enough being revealed to simply lay blame on the cop.
St. Louis PD has released cellphone footage of the shooting and killing of Kajieme Powell by two St. Louis police officers on August 19. According to police he was shot within 2 to 3 feet of the police and holding a knife with a overhand grip and yelling "Shoot me, Kill me now". The shooting took place about two miles from where Michael Brown was killed.
St. Louis PD has released cellphone footage of the shooting and killing of Kajieme Powell by two St. Louis police officers on August 19. According to police he was shot within 2 to 3 feet of the police and holding a knife with a overhand grip and yelling "Shoot me, Kill me now". The shooting took place about two miles from where Michael Brown was killed.
He came at the officer's with lethal force. They used lethal force on him. It's unfortunate but based on what he was screaming this should constitute suicide-by-cop.
If a taser fails the man easily could have killed the officer at that range and they should have a right to defend themselves especially from lethal force. For all the injustices that officers may be committing, this doesn't seem like one to me.
That was further than 2-3 feet away. 2 cops there. One could have tried a less lethal force while the other one covered him with a gun.
What a sad sad video.
He was approximately 8 feet away, froze it at first gunshot sound, and using the young man as being about 6 feet as scale.
What a tragic state of affairs in Missouri.
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Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen
He came at the officer's with lethal force. They used lethal force on him. It's unfortunate but based on what he was screaming this should constitute suicide-by-cop.
If a taser fails the man easily could have killed the officer at that range and they should have a right to defend themselves especially from lethal force. For all the injustices that officers may be committing, this doesn't seem like one to me.
That video shows an officer with a holstered weapon, in a far less readied stance, with the perp closer than the Powell shooting.
That video shows an officer with a holstered weapon, in a far less readied stance, with the perp closer than the Powell shooting.
That's a very poor comparison.
Officers are trained not to let a knife wielding man get that close to them.
They have every right to go home to their loved ones as everyone else should have, so when they respond to a man acting erratically with a knife around civilians they need to look out for their own safety and the safety of the civilians. Unfortunately, when dealing with people who want to commit suicide-by-cop they aren't left with many options when lethal force is a real possibility - which will be the case anytime someone wields a knife.
It's simply, don't go up to police - or anyone with the means to defend themselves - with lethal force if you don't want to risk death. Unfortunately this man wanted to die and now the police will have to go home with that on their conscience despite being perfectly justified.
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What I said was that what was on the video doesn't really say much one way or the other about the guy being violent. Criminal behaviour, sure.
But there's a pretty big step from pushing around a shopkeeper to attacking a police officer.
A violent crime is when a person uses or even threatens force upon someone. It doesn't mean they have to knock someone senseless. He did that both by physically attacking the cashier, even if it was just a "little push" and when he went back to intimidate him. Unless you don't understand what violence means there's no degree to say what he did wasn't violent.
You're right about it being a big step to attacking the officer though.
Officers are trained not to let a knife wielding man get that close to them.
They have every right to go home to their loved ones as everyone else should have, so when they respond to a man acting erratically with a knife around civilians they need to look out for their own safety and the safety of the civilians. Unfortunately, when dealing with people who want to commit suicide-by-cop they aren't left with many options when lethal force is a real possibility - which will be the case anytime someone wields a knife.
It's simply, don't go up to police - or anyone with the means to defend themselves - with lethal force if you don't want to risk death. Unfortunately this man wanted to die and now the police will have to go home with that on their conscience despite being perfectly justified.
What's the limit to how close they can be from a knife wielding perp?
When does non-lethal, take-down methodology get implemented? foam/netting/tasering?
What's the limit to how close they can be from a knife wielding perp?
When does non-lethal, take-down methodology get implemented? foam/netting/tasering?
I don't know, but that was a lot closer than I would have thought anyways.
Did they have the time to pull out foam and netting? You can clearly see civilians around, they don't have the luxury of anything but confronting the suspect as soon as possible in this case.
They responded to a call about an erratic man with a knife, they got there as quick as they could and asked him to put down the knife. Instead he came at them yelling "kill me" multiple times. It's unfortunate they weren't Steven Seagal and able to karate kick the knife out of his hands but this is real life and instead they did what they were trained to do and counter lethal force with lethal force. It is unfortunate, but it was also suicide by cop.
If he wasn't moving towards them or brandishing his knife my feelings would be quite different but that wasn't the case.
Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 08-20-2014 at 11:00 PM.
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He came at the officer's with lethal force. They used lethal force on him. It's unfortunate but based on what he was screaming this should constitute suicide-by-cop.
If a taser fails the man easily could have killed the officer at that range and they should have a right to defend themselves especially from lethal force. For all the injustices that officers may be committing, this doesn't seem like one to me.
This video shows officers that have not already drawn a weopon. The video of the man being shot had there weapons drawn immediately. Like I said one could of had a stun gun .
I don't care how many chances they gave the guy to drop the knife. Say drop the knife once. Like before he CLP over that little ledge ten taze him . At that point he was about 15-17 feet away. If that fails from that distance then shoot him.
I understand this may have been suicide by cop. It almost looks like he was testing
Its just amazing how all these country's in the world can subdue criminals with out firearms but not in the USA.
And I hope we are not still using outdated video's to train our police forces.
We don't know what would of happened if the cops did not instantly engage with guns drawn. Before they even engaged him weapons were drawn. When met with force, force usually is returned.
I don't have anything against police shootings with out good reasoning. Hell, I was raised by a cop.
Last edited by combustiblefuel; 08-20-2014 at 11:29 PM.
