My gas study

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by kevman

They'll try their best based on availability and contracts in place but outages, shutdowns, etc. also influence this. You also said "here"... Shell stations on the west coast (ie, Squamish) have 10% blended ethanol in them leading me to believe that their fuel is NOT coming from the Scotford refinery despite the Shell logo on the pumps.

I am however curious that if the "fly-by nights" as you put it get their gas from the same refinery what makes the Shell pump better?

If you read the Shell link it only applies to 91 octane and it's Canada wide. The other retailers might have Shell gas but you won't know for sure if it's ethanol free.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

From what I understand, if you're driving a car that is less than 10 years old, the benefits of "pure gas" are negligible beyond more mileage per litre. Sucks for the fuel line rubber being eroded in older vehicles however.

Which is why the whole ethanol blended mandate is a shame. If you have a 10% ethanol blended gas and you lose 10% of your fuel economy how are you better off? The emission benefits of ethanol blended gas are close to zero and all we are doing is creating artificial demand for a crop that is already in demand.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by kevman

I am however curious that if the "fly-by nights" as you put it get their gas from the same refinery what makes the Shell pump better?

Usually, detergents and chemical agents put in during the tank fill. Centex/FasGas/Domo etc. use little to no detergents or extras in their gas.

As well, the Big 4 (Shell, PetroCan, Esso, Husky/Mohawk) supposedly replace their underground tanks more often, which means there is less incidence of silt, groundwater and contaminant buildup.

[Hevishot]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

What kind of dummy would use high octane fuel without an engine equipped to take advantage of it?

The same people that pay 120.00 retail for 20L of "race fuel" for their un modified dirtbikes,quads and sleds........

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by kevman

Which is why the whole ethanol blended mandate is a shame. If you have a 10% ethanol blended gas and you lose 10% of your fuel economy how are you better off? The emission benefits of ethanol blended gas are close to zero and all we are doing is creating artificial demand for a crop that is already in demand.

It is a sham, but it allows us to produce the same amount of gas on 5% less dinosaurs.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by kevman

Which is why the whole ethanol blended mandate is a shame. If you have a 10% ethanol blended gas and you lose 10% of your fuel economy how are you better off? The emission benefits of ethanol blended gas are close to zero and all we are doing is creating artificial demand for a crop that is already in demand.

This is faulty math.

100% gas = 100% economy right?

90% gas + 10% ethanol doesn't = 90% economy, because Ethanol is not literal filler.

Ethanol (E100) is about 2/3rds as powerful as gasoline (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent) so E10 fuel is ~96.67% as powerful as 100% gasoline.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

It is a sham, but it allows us to produce the same amount of gas on 5% less dinosaurs.

Yeah but when you factor losses in it's closer to 3% less dinosaurs.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This is faulty math.

100% gas = 100% economy right?

90% gas + 10% ethanol doesn't = 90% economy, because Ethanol is not literal filler.

Ethanol (E100) is about 2/3rds as powerful as gasoline (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent) so E10 fuel is ~96.67% as powerful as 100% gasoline.

Yeah bad example. You still end up burning more gas for the same price for a smaller benefit than what is implied.

[Erick Estrada]

Our gasoline simply isn't that great. You can't even run Cobb OTS maps in Canada without running their conservative ACN tunes for California gas. I was getting a lot of knock on Petro Can 94 and a little less on Husky 94. I know lots of GTR owners in Vancouver drive into Washington to fill with US Chevron 92 which is more knock resistant than Canadian Chevron 94. Our gas has to cover a broader range of temperatures and our federal limit on benzene and sulfur content is lower than US so our gasoline is generally cleaner but lower quality as far as combustion is concerned.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Our gasoline simply isn't that great. You can't even run Cobb OTS maps in Canada without running their conservative ACN tunes for California gas. I was getting a lot of knock on Petro Can 94 and a little less on Husky 94. I know lots of GTR owners in Vancouver drive into Washington to fill with US Chevron 92 which is more knock resistant than Canadian Chevron 94. Our gas has to cover a broader range of temperatures and our federal limit on benzene and sulfur content is lower than US so our gasoline is generally lower quality as far as combustion is concerned.

Depends on the tuner and vehicle, our 93 octane tuned GTI has never knocked on Ultra 94.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Depends on the tuner and vehicle, our 93 octane tuned GTI has never knocked on Ultra 94.

Well yeah you can get a tuner to tune your car not to knock on any gasoline the car is filled with when tuned. My car is tuned for Husky 94 and doesn't knock but if I filled up with Ultra 94 I would have ugly knock. I was talking about maps from Tuners like Cobb that release OTS (off the shelf) maps for vehicles that are mild improvements over stock tunes. Those maps are based on dyno runs in the US on their gasoline. When used in Canada the results are not as good because our gasoline isn't exactly the same.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I thought we might be going into this area.........

http://forumcdn.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=78948

Or this thread.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=49802

One of the best thread titles ever.

[OutOfTheCube]

I've never bought anything less than the cheapest low end gas. Gas is expensive enough, geez. I'm not driving a Ferrari here.

[Torture]

Surprised nobody has mentioned that how you drove (city, highway, more aggressive starts/stops, idling, terrain, trip duration?) on each tank could have impacted it as well.

The number of things you haven't controlled for, not using L/100KM, and the small sample size makes this pretty much meaningless...

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Torture

Surprised nobody has mentioned that how you drove (city, highway, more aggressive starts/stops, idling, terrain, trip duration?) on each tank could have impacted it as well.

The number of things you haven't controlled for, not using L/100KM, and the small sample size makes this pretty much meaningless...

There are certainly a lot of variables at play. I just looked at my fuel usage data (I have four years of data) and I have upwards of 10% variance in fuel economy between fill ups (winter variance can be upwards up 25%.)

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Torture

Surprised nobody has mentioned that how you drove (city, highway, more aggressive starts/stops, idling, terrain, trip duration?) on each tank could have impacted it as well.

The number of things you haven't controlled for, not using L/100KM, and the small sample size makes this pretty much meaningless...

Came here to say this, see that it's been taken care of.

Unless you drove identical routes every single time, under identical conditions, with identical traffic light timing, at identical speeds, this whole thing is meaningless.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Or this thread.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=49802

One of the best thread titles ever.

How did I miss this. Literally laughed so hard I was crying for the last ten minutes. That's the hardest I've laughed in years

[#-3]

Originally Posted by GGG

If your engine doesn't take advantage of the extra compression high octane fuel gives then there should be no difference in gas mileage or performance.

I drove an escape for ~ 5 years. Twice I put premium in it due to Petros gas shortages. 1 time I used the gas on the highway, I noticed between ~5% more millage, it was easy to notice more gas in the trip after a 350KM trip I take all of the time. The 2nd time I used it in the city, didn't notice a difference. But I've never been one to measure KM/tank so its hard to notice a difference over 1.5 weeks.

In theory you are probably right, but I notice a small difference. Not really worth the price difference.

[ricosuave]

Well, I find the Shell diesel comment above interesting...

In over 10 years of driving diesels, I've always had the worst mileage with both Shell Ultra diesel and Esso. Husky gave the best, and superstore is second. All fairly consistently through vehicles, seasons and driving.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Came here to say this, see that it's been taken care of.

Unless you drove identical routes every single time, under identical conditions, with identical traffic light timing, at identical speeds, this whole thing is meaningless.

Well like I said in my first post, this could have been a coincidence but it's not like I did this test one time. I did it ten times and every single time I used CO-OP I got less gas mileage. It could be a coincidence I guess that I drove harder or every time I filled up with Shell I drove the best routes but I would rather believe Shell has better gas.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

No, I never recorded the price since it was irrelevant to me. All that mattered is how much I got on a tank before the gas light came on. And I'm not allowed into CO-OP to take advantage of those coupons, I'm not 65 yet.

What coupons require you to be 65 to use them?

The only restrictions that I know of on gas coupons is they can not be used to purchase drugs or alcohol.