2014 Blue Jays Regular Season Thread

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by evman150

When you're 0 for 7 and have a chance to take one off the terminator arm protector for the win, you take it. Gutless play by him.

I know guys like him. "Hate losing". Get really angry when things don't go their way. But then a chance to win the game actually comes around, and he wusses out. Don't be fooled by all the bluster. The guy leads the league in "me at-bats". That at-bat with the bases loaded in the 13th (?) was the very definition of a me at-bat. Followed by a very obvious me at-bat once again in the 19th.

Hating losing does not make you a leader. Some of the biggest cancer dbags I have ever played with also "hated losing with a passion". Funny - they were also the ones diving out of the way of bean balls with the game on the line.

This might be one of the dumbest takes ever posted at CP. Congratulations.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

It seems to me you just hate Bautista and are looking for reasons to hate him more.

You're right, I don't like Bautista. I think he's a terrible "leader". I don't like the way he plays. No baseball IQ, always moaning at umpires. He's not clutch (as his .195 average with the bases loaded this year attests), and he has a terrible attitude.

Your comment confuses cause and effect. I dislike him because of how he plays. I don't like how he plays because I don't like him. I'm not a "Jays fan". I don't have a favourite team. I like to see the Blue Jays, Mariners, A's, and Braves do well. I have no agenda against Bautista except how he plays.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

This might be one of the dumbest takes ever posted at CP. Congratulations.

Nice drive-by.

Care to counter the points I made?

[Zach]

Going down to Seattle for the Jays series. Stoked. I remember the Jays went 2-1 last time and 10k fans came down.

[GirlySports]

I do agree that Bautista takes a lot of me-ABs. Actually the entire Blue Jays team does. They just don't situationally hit that well. I almost fell off my seat when they suicide squeezed on Saturday.

However when the ball is coming at you in 3 tenths of a second, your natural reaction is to get out of the way. You can't just let the ball hit you anyways, you must make an attempt to get out of the way.

[Chump]

Originally Posted by evman150

You're right, I don't like Bautista. I think he's a terrible "leader". I don't like the way he plays. No baseball IQ, always moaning at umpires. He's not clutch (as his .195 average with the bases loaded this year attests), and he has a terrible attitude.

Your comment confuses cause and effect. I dislike him because of how he plays. I don't like how he plays because I don't like him. I'm not a "Jays fan". I don't have a favourite team. I like to see the Blue Jays, Mariners, A's, and Braves do well. I have no agenda against Bautista except how he plays.

Bautista has a .333 avg with the bases loaded and a .295 avg with RISP this year so you can hardly call him not "clutch" by his stats. You keep bringing up his lack of baseball IQ with little to no evidence and every thing I've read/heard about him is he studies the game a lot and is often helping out other Jays with batting tips.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I do agree that Bautista takes a lot of me-ABs. Actually the entire Blue Jays team does. They just don't situationally hit that well. I almost fell off my seat when they suicide squeezed on Saturday.

However when the ball is coming at you in 3 tenths of a second, your natural reaction is to get out of the way. You can't just let the ball hit you anyways, you must make an attempt to get out of the way.

There really is no "getting out of the way" as most attempts to "get out of the way" are batters turning into a baseball...

As for the Bautista debate, I don't disagree with a lot of what the poster said. Although there have been a few instances where Bautista has given up an AB for the greater cause, it is very unlikely most of the time.

I would never question Bautista's character for winning though, guy plays wherever is needed to make the starting 9 better, and probably has a lot of weight on his shoulders trying to keep this broken down ship afloat. That AB in extra innings where he grounded out on the first pitch, was nothing more than impatient and trying to make something happen. Not sure how you can argue otherwise, as he just swung at a bad pitch. Had nothing to do with him being a selfish player.

For the poster questioning Bautista, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Francisco If I never have to watch him swing wildly at a ball in the dirt, I could probably consider my time on earth a relative success. Guy has got to have the lowest baseball IQ at the plate I have seen in recent history.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by evman150

You're right, I don't like Bautista. I think he's a terrible "leader". I don't like the way he plays. No baseball IQ, always moaning at umpires. He's not clutch (as his .195 average with the bases loaded this year attests), and he has a terrible attitude.

Your comment confuses cause and effect. I dislike him because of how he plays. I don't like how he plays because I don't like him. I'm not a "Jays fan". I don't have a favourite team. I like to see the Blue Jays, Mariners, A's, and Braves do well. I have no agenda against Bautista except how he plays.

The guy has the second highest walk rate in the entire league and he's a "me-first" batter? Makes total sense. He's also in the top 30 for not swinging at pitches outside the strike zone (out of 150 qualified batters). So selfish.

I love when someone has an axe to grind with a superstar and chooses to cherry-pick some obscure, small sample size stat to make their point. And I love it more when they get the stat wrong - Bautista is actually .333 in six whole at-bats with the bases loaded this year.

[Derek Sutton]

Hopefully EE is back soon enough that this shouldn't really matter but I wouldlike to see Melky batting after Batista wiht the current lineup. I don't know, maybe not but the is no threat after the top 3, and no protection for Batista. There is no incentive to pitch to Batista when he is follwed by Navarro (thole) FrancisKo or Reimold. Goes at lead off, Reyes 2nd Batista 3rd and Melky clean up? Reyes is a true lead off batter but it just bugs how Gibbons doesn't ever tinker with the top of the order to try and stretch a little depth out of what they have now. Or Kawasaki bating 2nd (as he is excellent situational hitter), followed by Melky and Batista (or Vice viersa). It was hard watching them leave so many men on base yesterday I would like to see Gibbons try something to address that.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Bautista's one of my all time favourite Jays!

I understand why he might bother some people, he definitely likes to argue strikes with umps, and he likes to speak his mind, but that's all just part of him wanting to win, and win in Toronto for that matter.

[OBCT]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

There really is no "getting out of the way" as most attempts to "get out of the way" are batters turning into a baseball...

As for the Bautista debate, I don't disagree with a lot of what the poster said. Although there have been a few instances where Bautista has given up an AB for the greater cause, it is very unlikely most of the time.

I would never question Bautista's character for winning though, guy plays wherever is needed to make the starting 9 better, and probably has a lot of weight on his shoulders trying to keep this broken down ship afloat. That AB in extra innings where he grounded out on the first pitch, was nothing more than impatient and trying to make something happen. Not sure how you can argue otherwise, as he just swung at a bad pitch. Had nothing to do with him being a selfish player.

For the poster questioning Bautista, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Francisco If I never have to watch him swing wildly at a ball in the dirt, I could probably consider my time on earth a relative success. Guy has got to have the lowest baseball IQ at the plate I have seen in recent history.

Good post; I agree with everything... except for the bolded part about Francisco.

As frustratingly all-or-nothing as Juan surely is, he's still no Adam Dunn.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by evman150

You're right, I don't like Bautista. I think he's a terrible "leader".

What a terrible leader..
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/...enced-players/

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by evman150

Nice drive-by.

Care to counter the points I made?

Sure. His WAR this season is miles ahead of any other player on this team. In fact, most statistics you can think of, traditional or sabermetric, argues that Bautista drives the bus on the Jays offence, and therefore, on-field success. That pretty much obliterates idiotic emotional arguments about how he apparently "wusses out" because someone in Calgary is pissed that he chose not to lean into a pitch.

And for all your bitching, would you care to tell me who hit the game winning single?

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by OBCT

Good post; I agree with everything... except for the bolded part about Francisco.

As frustratingly all-or-nothing as Juan surely is, he's still no Adam Dunn.

I don't know, I think I'd take Adam Dunn over Juan Francisco any day of the week at a similar age. Dunn carved out a pretty nice career off hitting the long ball.

Cripes I might even take Adam Dunn today over Juan Francisco. I don't like either, for the record.

[Derek Sutton]

From Wikpedia

"Originally a switch-hitter, Francisco abandoned hitting right-handed in 2009 to become a full-time lefty"



Why would he have done that, he is awful against lefties I can't see how batting right would be anyworse then he is now. It looks like he just mails it in vs lefties.

[MyFlamesFirst]

My problem with Juan is that he isn't a clutch hitter. It seems he only hits home runs when the jays are already leading.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

From Wikpedia

"Originally a switch-hitter, Francisco abandoned hitting right-handed in 2009 to become a full-time lefty"



Why would he have done that, he is awful against lefties I can't see how batting right would be anyworse then he is now. It looks like he just mails it in vs lefties.

Maybe he was as bad from the right side vs. lefties, as he is from the left side vs. lefties. I don't know, didn't check the stats. Isn't uncommon for people to abandon switch hitting to swing from one side and try to refine their approach. Juan just looks like he's abandoned everything right now.

Did anyone else notice him falling over in the box his last three AB's? Was a strange sequence of events. His swing reminds me a lot of Prince Fielder's with a 1/2 of the results.

[Resolute 14]

If Francisco abandoned switch hitting in his rookie year, it stands to reason that it was the Reds who wanted him to focus on batting from one side.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Sure. His WAR this season is miles ahead of any other player on this team. In fact, most statistics you can think of, traditional or sabermetric, argues that Bautista drives the bus on the Jays offence, and therefore, on-field success. That pretty much obliterates idiotic emotional arguments about how he apparently "wusses out" because someone in Calgary is pissed that he chose not to lean into a pitch.

And for all your bitching, would you care to tell me who hit the game winning single?

The .195 was his career average with the bases loaded. They flashed it on the screen during the game. Thought it was unbelievably low. He has four hits in his last thirty PAs with the bases loaded (three singles, one double). Not so hot. But ya, small sample size I know.

I never said he wasn't a good player. He has tremendous skill. He's just nowhere near a complete player.

For example, what on earth was that rundown last night? He almost blew the game. Jays got very very lucky on replay. I thought it was inconclusive. The guy deserved to be called safe just based on how boneheaded the play Bautista made was. That would have been an ugly play in little league, let alone the major leagues. But it's just another demonstration of his low baseball IQ.

Bautista does all the big flashy things that fans love. Homes runs! Outfield assists! Big upper cut hacks!

Watch for the little things though. He mucks them up routinely. That at bat in the 13th was a prime example. Bases loaded, a guy with six MLB games on the mound who just walked the last guy on four pitches (three of which were not close). What does Bautista do? Rolls over on the first pitch that was six inches outside. WTF? That is unbelievably bad baseball, and something the casual fan probably doesn't even notice.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by evman150

The .195 was his career average with the bases loaded. They flashed it on the screen during the game. Thought it was unbelievably low. He has four hits in his last thirty PAs with the bases loaded (three singles, one double). Not so hot. But ya, small sample size I know.

I never said he wasn't a good player. He has tremendous skill. He's just nowhere near a complete player.

For example, what on earth was that rundown last night? He almost blew the game. Jays got very very lucky on replay. I thought it was inconclusive. The guy deserved to be called safe just based on how boneheaded the play Bautista made was. That would have been an ugly play in little league, let alone the major leagues. But it's just another demonstration of his low baseball IQ.

Bautista does all the big flashy things that fans love. Homes runs! Outfield assists! Big upper cut hacks!

Watch for the little things though. He mucks them up routinely. That at bat in the 13th was a prime example. Bases loaded, a guy with six MLB games on the mound who just walked the last guy on four pitches (three of which were not close). What does Bautista do? Rolls over on the first pitch that was six inches outside. WTF? That is unbelievably bad baseball, and something the casual fan probably doesn't even notice.

I actually do agree with some of what you have said, but I am interested to hear on why you thought his AB in the 19th was an "about me" at bat?

My eyes seen a way better approach, took the ball the other way, got it elevated and drove the ball over the shallow outfield. A selfish at bat would have tried to pull the ball, probably rolling over to the left side for the force out at home. Just curious to why you think what you do