Once again Israel shows it doesn't screw around

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

This confirms many of my fears.

The epistemic closure is strong.

hahahaa wut?

Talk about an ironic statement..

I posted a link to a tweet about Hamas suppressing freedom of the press. On a topic where posters in here refused to admit that maybe it was Hamas that had launched those rockets. Where posters accused Israel of purposely targeting children.

All you can do is attack the inadvertent link to the tweet...and then declare epistemic closure.

Sorry if this post is too personal, your post is just layers and layers of lack of self-awareness.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by blankall

They get aid from other places....How many times do I have to say that.

Actually, it was part of your initial point, and was the initial point I was disputing. You have since moved the goal posts. Here was the one I initially quoted:

Originally Posted by blankall

The US gives the Palestinians about 500 million in aid a year. They receive more aid per person than any other population on the planet.

And no IRon Dome would not work against targeted strikes from above.

Now you have indicated you want to talk about all aid. OK.

Originally Posted by blankall

The Palestinians also get about 250 million in aid from the EU.

The UN not only supplies massive amounts of monetary aid but they build things and they have workers in the Palestinian Authority working for free.

They get aid from the Arab world, muslim charities, etc..

Here is a report on Humanitarian Aid that each country receives:
http://www.globalhumanitarianassista...eport-2011.pdf

Palestine gets the most per capita and its not close. Please note that Israel is not on this list as they get military aid, not humanitarian. But it doesn't include the other sources of Palestinian aid either.

LOL, first off, I reviewed that report. Yes, there are more world wide donors. No, there is no number that I can find that supports your latest claim (even with the goal posts moved now.) It is a lot closer, and perhaps even.

And if you think that there isn't other "aid" going to Israel, you are crazy.

Anyway, I am done. I detest this whole situation.

I stand by my first reply to you in that you made a statement that is factually misleading at best, inaccurate at worst.

[Mr.Coffee]

it's tough to know what is really right or wrong in this whole mess.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by blankall

Regardless of who that blogger was (I had no idea who she was) she was reposting the actual tweets from the Italian journalist. Here is the actual tweet:



His twitter account:

https://twitter.com/gabrielebarbati/...31918732926976

The fact a bigot commented about it doesn't make it any less true. The reporter not only witnessed the attack but witnessed Hamas covering their actions up.

It makes the interpretation of the information coated in deep bias. The fact that you don't find anything wrong with linking to someone who has been vocal in their hate and distrust of Muslims is unnerving. Are you suggesting the twitter account is full of completely reliable, face value information? Because I suggest you read it, as it contains tweets that oppose some of the many things you've said in this thread.

In his twitter, he has said such things as having 99% freedom of press in Gaza, while journalists having to clear all information through IDF and the government in Israel.

He's also said that rockets have never been fired from UN schools. The same ones Israel has hit while "returning fire."

So are we alright with taking his word at face value?

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I read a bit about her, what is it that makes her the equivalent of a neo-nazi? She has certainly been controversial.

She founded the SIOA, which has been classified as a hate group by some civil rights groups, she has taken out bigoted ads based solely on her own ignorance and hate for Muslims.

Would it not seem inane to frequent a website and obtain information about this conflict from someone who hates Jews? Why then is it any different when you obtain information from someone who hates Muslims?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Sure, sounds reasonable.

And fortunately for Hamas, when events on the ground gave them cause to escalate, they had an administration in Israel chomping at the bit to let the one side of the Palestinian cause openly against peace determine the course of events instead of dealing with the side of the Palestinian cause that wants peace.

The Israeli administration wants conflict. Hamas wants conflict. They're both happier than pigs in mud right now.

The people suffering are the civilians in Gaza and those on both sides that want to find a way to end the conflict.

There. Now, you are your side lay the blame on Hamas and the Israeli gov't equally, and we can all move on.

Originally Posted by Rerun

I completely disagree with the bolded part of your statement. The only side that wants conflict is Hamas and they are the only ones who are happier than pigs.
All Israel wants to do is live in peace with its neighbors. Unfortunately millions of Arabs won't let them and they won't be happy until the State of Israel no longer exists.... as they have said many, many times.

Originally Posted by nik-

As long as that peace doesn't involve a two state solution, and a continuance of settlements in West Bank territory. They want peace for sure, they just don't want to compromise for it.

Well nik, that explains everything! Now I understand why they deserved to be attacked continuously, by their neighbors, for the past 65 years. Three cheers for Hamas... and everyone else who has waged war against Israel.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by blankall

I posted a link to a tweet about Hamas suppressing freedom of the press ... your post is just layers and layers of lack of self-awareness.

Yes you did, from a hate filled site of a bigot. Which distorted the message of a journalist on twitter who said this:

@gabrielebarbati: Journos work in #Gaza FREE99% abt war. Pressure only if bad news 4 Hamas. In #israel instead most medias "fed" by idf+Gov. Ok@TimesofIsrael

So journalists in Gaza have freedom of the press 99% of the time, but receive some pressure when critical of Hamas, but Israel restricts their media through the IDF and Government so much that it's seen as "feeding", and yet, you think your link proves Hamas suppresses freedom? Israel feeds media what they want to allow, and Hamas allows 99% freedom, and HAMAS is the one restricting journalists?

I suggest you read his twitter.
Layers and layers of a lack of self-awareness indeed.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by blankall

hahahaa wut?

Talk about an ironic statement..

I posted a link to a tweet about Hamas suppressing freedom of the press. On a topic where posters in here refused to admit that maybe it was Hamas that had launched those rockets. Where posters accused Israel of purposely targeting children.

All you can do is attack the inadvertent link to the tweet...and then declare epistemic closure.

Sorry if this post is too personal, your post is just layers and layers of lack of self-awareness.

What I questioned was the lack of discrimination on what is viewed as a reliable source of news for dissemination.

Pamela Geller is a conspiracist and a bigot. I wouldn't use any bigot's website as a source of information; in fact, if that was the source I was using to confirm my preconceived notions, then I'd take a long look in the mirror.

Geller also promotes the theory that the tragedy at Rafah this past Sunday was staged and bodies were dragged in after the fact.

She's a gem, and my epistemic closure comment stands.


----

Edit: You do realize that journalists that are in Israel on behalf of foreign news organizations must agree in writing to the military censorship system, right?

As always, a fuller view of both sides is really nice to have and, if your world view allows, acknowledge.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

It makes the interpretation of the information coated in deep bias. The fact that you don't find anything wrong with linking to someone who has been vocal in their hate and distrust of Muslims is unnerving. Are you suggesting the twitter account is full of completely reliable, face value information? Because I suggest you read it, as it contains tweets that oppose some of the many things you've said in this thread.

In his twitter, he has said such things as having 99% freedom of press in Gaza, while journalists having to clear all information through IDF and the government in Israel.

He's also said that rockets have never been fired from UN schools. The same ones Israel has hit while "returning fire."

So are we alright with taking his word at face value?




She founded the SIOA, which has been classified as a hate group by some civil rights groups, she has taken out bigoted ads based solely on her own ignorance and hate for Muslims.

Would it not seem inane to frequent a website and obtain information about this conflict from someone who hates Jews? Why then is it any different when you obtain information from someone who hates Muslims?

Umm...take your pills.

That was just the first site reporting on the tweet that came up in google.

I actually had no idea who Pamela Geller was until about 10 minutes ago. I have never read any of her material before and I do not support any of her views. I suggest you also pay less attention to her. That's when people like her go away. When people stop being obsessed with them.

Does not change the fact that we have an independent witness saying Hamas struck the school and Hamas carried out a cleanup job afterwards. But please keep trying to deflect from that.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

What I questioned was the lack of discrimination on what is viewed as a reliable source of news for dissemination.

Pamela Geller is a conspiracist and a bigot. I wouldn't use any bigot's website as a source of information; in fact, if that was the source I was using to confirm my preconceived notions, then I'd take a long look in the mirror.

Geller also promotes the theory that the tragedy at Rafah this past Sunday was staged and bodies were dragged in after the fact.

She's a gem, and my epistemic closure comment stands.


----

Edit: You do realize that journalists that are in Israel on behalf of foreign news organizations must agree in writing to the military censorship system, right?

As always, a fuller view of both sides is really nice to have and, if your world view allows, acknowledge.

All journalists in every war have to agree to military censorship. Otherwise they would report on things like troop movements that would give tactical advantages to the other side. But nice try.

Now can we discuss the actual tweet here.

Italian reporter, with no affiliation to Israel, tweeted that he witnessed Hamas rockets hit the school and Hamas men hiding the evidence.

It doesn't matter whose blog reported the tweet, the tweet stands for itself.

[blankall]

Turns out I was wrong about something, Hamas was far more involved in the murder of 3 Israeli teens than I thought:

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/A...rrested-370166

They had the man in custody. He admitted to it....but there was a gag order, like most major police investigations. So Israel not immediately providing you with your "proof" was standard protocol after all. The "lone cell" misquote was indeed a misquote.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by blankall

Umm...take your pills.

That was just the first site reporting on the tweet that came up in google.

I actually had no idea who Pamela Geller was until about 10 minutes ago. I have never read any of her material before and I do not support any of her views. I suggest you also pay less attention to her. That's when people like her go away. When people stop being obsessed with them.

Does not change the fact that we have an independent witness saying Hamas struck the school and Hamas carried out a cleanup job afterwards. But please keep trying to deflect from that.

Pardon me?
You said this:

Originally Posted by blankall

Italian journalist says he is certain that it was an errant Hamas rocket that hit the school killing 10 kids. The reason he didn't speak out earlier....He was afraid of Hamas silencing him.

This is blatantly false, with zero evidence in his twitter account to suggest that. It's a narrative you took from the bigotry blog you were reading, which you claimed "I do not support any of her views"... well, you certainly supported the contents of her article blindly.

You also said this:

Originally Posted by blankall

I posted a link to a tweet about Hamas suppressing freedom of the press.

Which is the exactly opposite of what the twitter account (or tweet in question) suggests, again, another narrative pulled directly from an article written by a bigot and re-imagined as your own narrative. The journalist states that Israel suppresses freedom of the press, and Hamas allows it almost in entirety. The very opposite of what you said. I don't think you're a bigot, but it's alarming that you'll go so far as to adopt the same narrative as a bigot simply because it fits into your bias.

It's a real shame that Hamas, a terrorist organization, accidentally killed children. You might expect as much from them, but it's no less horrible.

He also looks to expose some pretty grave IDF lies:

@gabrielebarbati: Must read: about whom broke the truce #Israel or #Hamas and a new to me strategy called "Hannibal Directive" http://t.co/fSsLylRsns

The link contains the headline:

Did Israeli army deliberately kill its own captured soldier and destroy Gaza ceasefire?

And goes on to suggest the IDF lied about the captured soldier, breaking the ceasefire themselves without Hamas doing much of anything.

Is it true? I have no idea. But it's posted by the same guy who is exposing your "truth" right?

There's more:

@gabrielebarbati: 25/07 #IDF claimed Hamas firing at from inside or near #UNRWA school bombed in BeitHanun #Gaza. "Fights all around". 4 neighbors say false

So Israel lied about Hamas fighting near the UNRWA school they bombed which took many civilian lives.

I've admitted Hamas killed children through misfire, are you going to admit Israel killed children and lied about the threat of Hamas to get away with it?

[robertsfan]

My favorite article regarding Israel, U.S. Foreign Aid, and the relationship between the two countries.

From 2003. Bear in mind that this article was written after 9-11, while the affected U.S. airlines were asking for a bailout to prevent falling into bankruptcy.

http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ons-shakedown/

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

Pardon me?
You said this:




This is blatantly false, with zero evidence in his twitter account to suggest that. It's a narrative you took from the bigotry blog you were reading, which you claimed "I do not support any of her views"... well, you certainly supported the contents of her article blindly.

You also said this:




Which is the exactly opposite of what the twitter account (or tweet in question) suggests, again, another narrative pulled directly from an article written by a bigot and re-imagined as your own narrative. The journalist states that Israel suppresses freedom of the press, and Hamas allows it almost in entirety. The very opposite of what you said. I don't think you're a bigot, but it's alarming that you'll go so far as to adopt the same narrative as a bigot simply because it fits into your bias.

It's a real shame that Hamas, a terrorist organization, accidentally killed children. You might expect as much from them, but it's no less horrible.

He also looks to expose some pretty grave IDF lies:


The link contains the headline:


And goes on to suggest the IDF lied about the captured soldier, breaking the ceasefire themselves without Hamas doing much of anything.

Is it true? I have no idea. But it's posted by the same guy who is exposing your "truth" right?

There's more:


So Israel lied about Hamas fighting near the UNRWA school they bombed which took many civilian lives.

I've admitted Hamas killed children through misfire, are you going to admit Israel killed children and lied about the threat of Hamas to get away with it?

The tweet reads:

Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris

How does "far from Hamas retaliation" and the fact he waited until he left Gaza to post suggest ZERO evidence towards the narrative that he was afraid of Hamas retaliation.....in fact he seems to be just coming out and saying exactly that in plain language.

The fact we had a previously anti-Israel reporter tweeting these things only makes it more credible. There's clearly a habit here of trying to dismiss all views that don't fit your own on the grounds they are biased.

Here we have an unbiased source stating that one of the most horrible incidents of this whole affair was caused by Hamas.

Edit:

I also find it quite perplexing how with one side of your mouth you're stating that the entire Palestinian population is behind Hamas and their support has skyrocketed due to this conflict and with the other side you're discounting everything evil they do as just the act of a "terrorist" organization only supported by the extreme elements of the Palestinian population.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by blankall

The tweet reads:

How does "far from Hamas retaliation" and the fact he waited until he left Gaza to post suggest ZERO evidence towards the narrative that he was afraid of Hamas retaliation.....in fact he seems to be just coming out and saying exactly that in plain language.

He's said repeatedly the pressure from Hamas is no worse than the pressure from Israel, the main difference being that almost ALL media is filtered in Israel, while Gaza has 99% free press.

@gabrielebarbati: #Gaza pix of rockets,fighters fleeing as civilians "bad news" 4 #Hamas. Confirm #IDF bombing UN schools same 4 #Israel. Both pressure press

He's said "in plain language" that Israel is suppressing the press more than Hamas, but I have conveniently yet to see you acknowledge the shocking revelation that a terrorist organisation allows more freedom of the press than Israel.

Originally Posted by blankall

The fact we had a previously anti-Israel reporter tweeting these things only makes it more credible. There's clearly a habit here of trying to dismiss all views that don't fit your own on the grounds they are biased.

Here we have an unbiased source stating that one of the most horrible incidents of this whole affair was caused by Hamas.

When was he anti-Israel? When did he become unbiased? He's been fairly bluntly critical of both for the bulk of his twitter history. Again, I'll ask, where is your recognition of Israel faking the capture of the soldier in order to blame Hamas for the break in ceasefire? Where is your acknowledgement of the bombing against 750 civilians at the UN school in Beit Hanoun? No Hamas, just civilians. They knew it, and still bombed it using repeated fire with tanks.

@gabrielebarbati: 25/07 2nd survivor UN school bombed BeitHanun #Gaza: "We were 750 people, gathered in yard. Then 12-15 shells from dababat". Dabab=Tank

That's a direct attack. Not accidental or careless, a purposeful, repeated attack against the UN school. And a terrorist organisation misfiring a rocket is what upsets you most?

Didn't you argue it wasn't about the civilians Israel kills, it was the fact that Hamas purposely tries to kill them? So why now, if I may ask, is it about the civilians Hamas killed accidentally, while Israel purposely fired tank shells at a UN school it knew Hamas were not located at?

Is it only about the tragic loss of a child's life when a Hamas accident is to blame, but when Israel kills them on purpose, it's just fine?

Originally Posted by blankall

I also find it quite perplexing how with one side of your mouth you're stating that the entire Palestinian population is behind Hamas and their support has skyrocketed due to this conflict and with the other side you're discounting everything evil they do as just the act of a "terrorist" organization only supported by the extreme elements of the Palestinian population.

If I led you to believe either of those things then I apologise, but I believe I never said them. I have always maintained Hamas as an evil terrorist organisation, always. I've said repeatedly they need to be eliminated Look back. I have not, however, ever stated that Hamas was supported only by the extreme, nor have I ever said they were supported by the entire population. Please do your best not to purposely misrepresent me, I've been very clear, and your false narrative is disconcerting. Nothing of what you said just there is truthful, and seeks obviously to only attack me, which is not necessary. You can better defend yourself without the ad hominem.

There seems to be a fundamental disconnect between what we disagree on and what you attempt to argue. We both agree Hamas is evil and guilty of many awful things. What I am also disgusted with are the actions of the IDF. I do not bring them up in defence of Hamas, but rather as a separate point of concern. I will bring Hamas up as a point of reference for how awful the IDF can be, but it generally ends there. However, you have some inherent need to fight over Hamas with me whenever possible. If we must fight, let's fight about something we disagree on, shall we?

[Tinordi]

MOD EDIT: Put such images in NSFW tags and warn others that they contain disturbing content.

NSFW!

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/...ion-of-israel/

You read that right. There will be temporary “camps” where the Gaza population will be “concentrated”; they will be expelled with subsidies; basic supplies of water and electricity will be cut off for those who remain. The war-time ethics he recommends are: “Woe to the evildoer, and woe to his neighbor.” He backs the “annihiliation” of Hamas and all their supporters.#His strategic goal is to “turn Gaza into Jaffa, a flourishing Israeli city with a minimum number of hostile civilians.” (Modern Jaffa, of course, was built on the ethnic cleansing of most of its Palestinian inhabitants in 1948.)

The usual response to this kind of thing among the lockstep pro-Israel community is that it is a tiny fringe opinion. And I can only hope they’re right. But what concerns me is that this racist, genocidal bigot was appointed deputy speaker of the Knesset by the current prime minister. What concerns me are the statements of Ayelet Shaked, the telegenic young protege of Naftali Bennett, who is touted as a future prime minister. This is from a Facebook post she wrote the day before the gruesome lynching of an Arab teen who was forced to drink gasoline and then burned to death by Jewish extremists. Note that#her call for war#came before any Hamas rocket was fired:

Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

Again, she and Feiglin dispense with the distinction between civilians and militants in Gaza.#

[Regorium]

It's always amusing to watch posters take a look at two biased sources, and only agree with the one that supports their narrative. None of the usual anti-Israel suspects in the thread have responded to the evidence that Hamas is launching rockets from civilian centers. I guess NDTV and France24 are biased sources too because it doesn't fit their narrative.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Regorium

It's always amusing to watch posters take a look at two biased sources, and only agree with the one that supports their narrative. None of the usual anti-Israel suspects in the thread have responded to the evidence that Hamas is launching rockets from civilian centers. I guess NDTV and France24 are biased sources too because it doesn't fit their narrative.

Hamas firing from civilian centers is well known, and has been discussed for the past month (since roughly July 10th, if you care to go back).

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Regorium

It's always amusing to watch posters take a look at two biased sources, and only agree with the one that supports their narrative. None of the usual anti-Israel suspects in the thread have responded to the evidence that Hamas is launching rockets from civilian centers. I guess NDTV and France24 are biased sources too because it doesn't fit their narrative.

Also amusing to watch people come in and out of the thread and claim that things that have happened... haven't happened.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Also amusing to watch people come in and out of the thread and claim that things that have happened... haven't happened.

Why read when you can post?

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Also amusing to watch people come in and out of the thread and claim that things that have happened... haven't happened.

It takes me 2 seconds to find a post that claims something is biased. Even on this page. That claims a tweet is biased and thus irrelevant.

I've read the entire thing. I've watched AltaGuy go from "unbiased 3rd person viewer" in his first post somewhere on page 10 to crazy "I hate Israel and everything it stands for" later on.

Just think about it next time a source is posted. A biased source is not always lying. You should take the information presented and think about it anyways.